Question on Torsion bars

[MaliceResistor]

Hi all,

Seeking guidance on my Challenger's suspension. It was a 318/904 car, and is now a 383/727 car.

This car will be a driver.

I am replacing the upper control arms and shocks:

I have removed one LCA, and the welding trick worked fine to get the bushing pressed out.

I ordered two struts from Mancini's and new bushings.

QUESTION ONE:

Lower control arms. I have extensively cleaned one, and am debating whether to install stiffeners, and perches for a sway bar, which I may or may not get.
My concern with the perches is having them be lined up correctly....would it not make more sense to weld them on with a sway bar in hand for proper fitment?

For the torsion bar socket, is spraying lube into the pivot area sufficient?

QUESTION 2:
Torsion bar diameters. I think the OE was in the 80s. I see OE for big blocks is .92, and I have seen lots of chats talking about .96, 1.03 and higher.
For those that have done so, is .92 sufficient?

Thank you

 

[bc3j]

I have an unrestored 70 RT with the heavy duty suspension with .90 bars. All I do is cruise with the car. Those bars work fine for me. If you’re considering more maneuverability bigger bars is where you should go. I do just street cruising and the ride quality fits my needs and the car handles fine. If you want a more performance oriented suspension you’ll need bigger bars. There’s guys here that can point you in the right direction.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

The sway bar mounts really can only fit in 1 small area , I doubt you would regret going to .92 bars or bigger

 

[MaliceResistor]

I have an unrestored 70 RT with the heavy duty suspension with .90 bars. All I do is cruise with the car. Those bars work fine for me. If you’re considering more maneuverability bigger bars is where you should go. I do just street cruising and the ride quality fits my needs and the car handles fine. If you want a more performance oriented suspension you’ll need bigger bars. There’s guys here that can point you in the right direction.

Thank you!!

 

[moparleo]

Find a set of factory LCS with the sway bar tabs. Install the stiffening plates and make sure all welds are good.
You will want to stiffen anything to do with suspension components. Flexing is your cars enemy .
And download a FSM and use it for any factory info like specs or servicing procedures.
MyMopar

 

[MaliceResistor]

The sway bar mounts really can only fit in 1 small area , I doubt you would regret going to .92 bars or bigger

The sway bar mounts really can only fit in 1 small area , I doubt you would regret going to .92 bars or bigger

Thank you for the response.

 

[EV2RTSE]

I recently purchased new T-bars for my project, 1.03" is basically the standard offering now, you won't have any regrets using them. My brother also has them on his 70 R/T and the car goes down the road really nicely. Definitely add the lower control arm reinforcement plates, and a front sway bar, and while you're at it also a rear bar. The factory one works decently although the aftermarket also offers one that mounts below the rear axle that is actually a better design if you're not concerned with original appearance. Here's a diagram for the front sway bar tabs.

 

[EV2RTSE]

The torsion bars should be installed with grease not just lube, and get these dust boots, they are easy to install even over larger diameter bars and they won't tear. Don't bother with any others, IMO.

Mancini Racing Torsion Bar Lock and Seal Kit

Are you using new stock style upper control arms or the tubular aftermarket type?

 

[MaliceResistor]

I recently purchased new T-bars for my project, 1.03" is basically the standard offering now, you won't have any regrets using them. My brother also has them on his 70 R/T and the car goes down the road really nicely. Definitely add the lower control arm reinforcement plates, and a front sway bar, and while you're at it also a rear bar. The factory one works decently although the aftermarket also offers one that mounts below the rear axle that is actually a better design if you're not concerned with original appearance. Here's a diagram for the front sway bar tabs.

View attachment 137335

View attachment 137336

Thanks for an awesome post, especially the drawings. I appreciate the 1.03 endorsement as well. My mission is to get the front suspension done first. Then pull the back end apart. I have new green bearings, and a separate 489 case holding 3.23s. Right now I have a 741 with 2.76s. Good idea about the rear tabs.

 

[MaliceResistor]

The torsion bars should be installed with grease not just lube, and get these dust boots, they are easy to install even over larger diameter bars and they won't tear. Don't bother with any others, IMO.

Mancini Racing Torsion Bar Lock and Seal Kit

Are you using new stock style upper control arms or the tubular aftermarket type?

"The torsion bars should be installed with grease not just lube."

It is extraordinary you say that. Last night, as I was pulling the passenger side T bar, all this black grease came out with it. I am going with OE style upper CAs...I agonized over it ,and thought, perfect is the enemy of good.

By chance, would anyone know where to find valid coupons/codes for Mancini Racing? I building quite grocery list.

 

[EV2RTSE]

Mancini has a lot of my money as well. I don't know if they do coupon codes often but they do run sales from time to time on certain things.

Often the new stock style upper control arms come with bushings already installed however I would recommend you get the Moog offset bushings instead. They're inexpensive and will allow you to get better alignment specs and will help the car handle better.

DO K7103 MOOG OFFSET BUSHINGS WORK

And I know this starts running into money, but if it has power steering, what kind of shape is the steering box in? Doing all of this and then going back to a worn out steering box might leave you feeling a little bit disappointed in the end. Something like a Firm Feel Stage 2 or even Stage 3 rebuild will make the car much more enjoyable to drive.

Firm Feel Steering Box Rebuilds E-Body

You could also consider the fast ratio pitman and idler arms to reduce the number of lock to lock turns of the steering wheel. With a big block, the passenger side exhaust pipe would need to be dinged slightly for clearance but not a bid deal and again it's a great mod to make.

At a minimum add shim washers to the power steering pump to reduce the overboosted feel as outlined in this article-
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/MoparAction/PumpItDown.pdf

Oh and if you're replacing the tie rods, upgrade them to the big-boat C-Body 11/16" pieces as well.

 

[MaliceResistor]

Mancini has a lot of my money as well. I don't know if they do coupon codes often but they do run sales from time to time on certain things.

Often the new stock style upper control arms come with bushings already installed however I would recommend you get the Moog offset bushings instead. They're inexpensive and will allow you to get better alignment specs and will help the car handle better.

DO K7103 MOOG OFFSET BUSHINGS WORK

And I know this starts running into money, but if it has power steering, what kind of shape is the steering box in? Doing all of this and then going back to a worn out steering box might leave you feeling a little bit disappointed in the end. Something like a Firm Feel Stage 2 or even Stage 3 rebuild will make the car much more enjoyable to drive.

Firm Feel Steering Box Rebuilds E-Body

You could also consider the fast ratio pitman and idler arms to reduce the number of lock to lock turns of the steering wheel. With a big block, the passenger side exhaust pipe would need to be dinged slightly for clearance but not a bid deal and again it's a great mod to make.

At a minimum add shim washers to the power steering pump to reduce the overboosted feel as outlined in this article-
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/MoparAction/PumpItDown.pdf

Oh and if you're replacing the tie rods, upgrade them to the big-boat C-Body 11/16" pieces as well.

Thank you for the great advice. I have some Moog UCA bushings in my 'pile' and will see if they are the number you referred to.

I replaced the steering box et al a couple years ago. The state of my funds at the time informed my purchase decisions.

I like the fast Pitman/Idler arm. With everything apart it would be a good time to look into it.

I love the washer hack. I replaced the pump a few years ago, and adding those washers would be a piece of cake.

Right now I am brute-force trying to remove the LCA bushing shell with a blind bearing puller Ive had laying around for decades, maybe now it can pay its rent.

 

[cuda joe]

tubular upper control arms will increase the caster alot better handling and feel to the car

 

[MaliceResistor]

tubular upper control arms will increase the caster alot better handling and feel to the car

Thank you Joe for responding!

 

[MaliceResistor]

I recently purchased new T-bars for my project, 1.03" is basically the standard offering now, you won't have any regrets using them. My brother also has them on his 70 R/T and the car goes down the road really nicely. Definitely add the lower control arm reinforcement plates, and a front sway bar, and while you're at it also a rear bar. The factory one works decently although the aftermarket also offers one that mounts below the rear axle that is actually a better design if you're not concerned with original appearance. Here's a diagram for the front sway bar tabs.

View attachment 137335

View attachment 137336

Hey man, I found this website in Prescott, AZ that makes all kinds of tabs, and sent them your drawing and photo to see if he has anything that is a match. www.tabzone.com

Reinforcing plates to arrive from Mancini on Saturday.

 

[Xcudame]

For lower control bushing shells, use a 1-3/8" tap. Screw it into the shell and press it out. Another way that works well is to use a die grinder and carefully cut two grooved 180 degrees apart. Don't need to slice completely through the shell, just enough so you can use a small chisel to hammer out the shell by starting on the outside lip and hammering towards the center. They're a PIA! The tap works the best with less work and loss of blood sweat and tears.

 

[EV2RTSE]

Hey man, I found this website in Prescott, AZ that makes all kinds of tabs, and sent them your drawing and photo to see if he has anything that is a match. www.tabzone.com

Reinforcing plates to arrive from Mancini on Saturday.

I can't take credit for the diagram it's just something I came across and saved for a reference. You can get these at Bergman-

Mopar A/B/E Weld On Sway Bar Tabs - Bergman Auto Craft