Steering box question

[shadango]

Wasn't sure where to post this one so here it is...my apologies if it needs to be in another area.....

Got the 72 Barracuda home and just now getting around to tinkering wit hstuff wwhat with all the other "stuff" that had to happen to make this happen. Finally realizing that this baby is MINE!

As I was settling in to the car after we got it into the garage, I climbed inside to stare out the windshield and make vroom vroom noises...LOL

Well, I pulled out on the steering wheel and it came off in my hands...LOL....no nut holding it on....but then I found that I could pull/push the steering shaft in and out at least a good inch....wondering if my steering box needs repaired or if thats normal and the slop is taken up by the nut etc.....I know that I have a bit of a leak where the shaft goes into the steering box......I bought some Lucas Oil power steering fluid/stop leak....know some folks who swear by it...and will use that to flush and refill the system when I replace the low pressure return hose....But I am wondering about that shaft pulling in and out....maybe a bad bushing somewhere?

I am waiting on my service manual CDs to arrive so I can figure it out...

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[burntorange70]

Wasn't sure where to post this one so here it is...my apologies if it needs to be in another area.....

Got the 72 Barracuda home and just now getting around to tinkering wit hstuff wwhat with all the other "stuff" that had to happen to make this happen. Finally realizing that this baby is MINE!

As I was settling in to the car after we got it into the garage, I climbed inside to stare out the windshield and make vroom vroom noises...LOL

Well, I pulled out on the steering wheel and it came off in my hands...LOL....no nut holding it on....but then I found that I could pull/push the steering shaft in and out at least a good inch....wondering if my steering box needs repaired or if thats normal and the slop is taken up by the nut etc.....I know that I have a bit of a leak where the shaft goes into the steering box......I bought some Lucas Oil power steering fluid/stop leak....know some folks who swear by it...and will use that to flush and refill the system when I replace the low pressure return hose....But I am wondering about that shaft pulling in and out....maybe a bad bushing somewhere?

I am waiting on my service manual CDs to arrive so I can figure it out...

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Vroom Vroom! Ya I do that too some times. Its fun LOL


Is the shaft moving in and out of the pot cuppling? They make a rebuild kit that comes with all the guts for that.

Put a nut on and see what happens.

 

[shadango]

Is the pot coupling right at the pump? If so...yes.

I keep wondering why the heck the nut is gone..wondering if the seller may have removed it to work on the shaft and then didnt.

IfI put a nut on it and it holds should I be ok do you think?

Seems like it shouldnt really do that to me though....

 

[burntorange70]

The pot coupling connects the stering shaft to the gear box. There should be a pin going into the coupling that keeps the guts from coming out. It is a small pin so you will need to look hard for it. You will all so have to remove the dust cover from the coupling to see it. If it is still in there (and I am thinking it will be or you would of lost your ability to steer) Put the nut on and you should be good.

 

[shadango]

Any chance you know what size the nut is?

I have looked all over and cant find them for sale or a size....I cant belive that one nut is that hard to find...LOL

 

[burntorange70]

Sorry, I don't. Mabby try an ad in the parts wanted section here and over on FABO. Some one is bound to have one lying around.

Good luck.

 

[shadango]

Someone on the cuda-challenger.com site said it is is a 1/2" fine lock nut.

Well,I found a couple of 1/2-fine (20) nuts.....one a stop but the other a nylon lock nut.

However, seems that the top of the shaft is a little mushroomed over.....I have a thread chaser die and a thread file and thought I was making a little progress but no joy.....the die doesnt seem to want to start ......

Afraid to get too aggressive and really louse up the shaft.....

Any words of wisdom on this?

 

[burntorange70]

Aside from geting a new shaft?


If you had a lath or knew some one that would let you yous theres you could turn down the shaft and tap it to the next size smaller nut.

Or grind down the Mushroomed part then retap it.

I know that don't sound to fun but it is the only thing I can think of. Sorry if I am not much help. Good luck.

 

[shadango]

Think I will try grinding down the mushroomed part just enough to get the die on it and chase the threads......fingers are crossed....LOL

How tough is swapping out the shaft should it be needed?

 

[burntorange70]

Think I will try grinding down the mushroomed part just enough to get the die on it and chase the threads......fingers are crossed....LOL

How tough is swapping out the shaft should it be needed?

Just remember. Only cut a little at a time and be pashent. You can take it off but you cant put it back on. LOL


Swapping out the shaft should be a lot easer than grinding down the mushroom and hopfuly you wont have to do that.

 

[shadango]

Ok....it took some real patience and a little panic on my end (LOL) but got the nut going on fine now nut wise......I still have to try and see if there is enough thread for the nut to press the wheel can to the shaft......

But here are some pictures of the issue I was referring to with the play in my steering shaft......

Here is a shot of my vice grips holding the shaft in place so I can work on it inside....

Here is a shot with the pliers removed....

Here is what it looks like inside...note the locking clip some distance away from the plastic....

Here is a shot of the shaft pushed all the way in towards the engine....

and here is what it looks like inside when pushed all the way in.....

Any thoughts? Seems like I may have something amiss here.....The steering wheel can will only go as far as the locking circlip there.....and then the can will probably ride up against the steering column collar, which cant be right.....

Please tell me I dont have to pull the steering shaft after all the work I went through to get the nut on! LOL

 

[burntorange70]

Does the shaft want to come all the way out of the coupling? There should be a little play in the shaft for when you hit bumps. But you don't want it to come all the way out. then you could not steer. there should be a smaller pin going in to that coupling that keeps the shaft from coming all the way out of it. Did you see any thing like that?

 

[shadango]

No, it doesn't come all the way out.....seems like thesteering is still engaged just fine when you pull theshaft out like that....

After reading the service manual, I see that it says that when you set this joint up you set it "at the middle of its travel".....so I guess it is supposed to have some movement just like you say....but you set it when you install the column to the car and then tighten the mounting bolts.....it doesnt say anything about there being play once the column is tightened up.

Almost seems like there is a part missing or something.....

 

[shadango]

Oh for pete's sake......I am embarassed to say that I didn't see that the circlip was disengaged from the groove...

Someone on the cuda-challenger forum called this to my attention...

How did I not see that? These old eyes must be getting even poorer than I thought....LOL

I guess part of it is that I assumed it was together the way it "should" be...looks like when the previous seller replaced the ignition lock he forgot that!

That took up about 95% of the movement...there is still some there though....is that normal?

 

[daredevil]

be sure on this. steering is nothing to play with. i think these collums have a collapsible feature to keep you from getting shish ka bobbed in a wreck. wondering if the tube has been collapsed. get a service manual. too much at stake unless a tech speaks up with definate answers

 

[shadango]

Yeah, I got a service manual.....

From what I can tell on the outside, I dont think it was collapsed....

But I believe one would probably have to pull the steering shaft altogether to know for sure....

Have been told that some movement is normal....gonna wait and see how it seems once the wheel is mounted......

 

[shadango]

Well, LOL, now it looks like I need some guts for my steering column --

I removed the column today after some advice that the column had to at least be pulled back some to get the pot coupler apart....decided to do the work on the bench... and tore it down.....surprisingly easy and found out a few things.....I had some movement between the lock housing and the column itself.....turns out two screws of the 4 were loose and one is missing....that seemes to be what was causing a little up/down slop I had in the column....so that issue should be cured once I get that missing screw....

So I need that screw to start.....

Next....looks like someone removed the following from the column (part numbers are referrng to this photo

-retaining plate 19-14-23 (goes in front of the signalswitch assembly)
- need one of the three screws that holds the signal switch assembly and retainer in
- one of the two snap rings is missing (#19-4-4)
-sleeve #19-14-123, the lock plates (2) and 2 pins, and the two levers for the lock plate...though for the life of me I cannot see any hole for the pin for the lock plate as shown in the above diagram and in my manual (my care is a 72)
- key light bracket and screw (light itself was stuffed inside of column) -no part #
-column lock plate

also, the upper bearing feels gritty when turning it so is in need of replacement

seal 19-14-68 (at lower end of column) is missing.....the retainer #19-14-73 is there but probably needs replaced too...

the sheer pin appears to have been replaced with epoxy on one side....

need the dial indicator window or whatever goes in front of the light unit....

will also need the foam gasket for when the column goes back in...

so, should I just look for a new column or can I get these parts reasonable?

I also have other questions like--

-- what is the purpose of the "depress lever and turn key" unit at the back of the front side of the column? Can I assume that section i supposed to tie in with the locking plate and such that is missing on mine? Mine just sits there...will spring back if moved though....just doesnt DO anything.

-- I think the lack of the locking plate and sleeve, plus the missing snap ring could be the reason I have the in/out slack in my column.....can anyone confirm? Or can I get by without the locking stuff on the column and have no in/out slop?

--what is the point of having the illuminated "dial indicator" on my car, as its a console car.....? The manual shows it, even for console cars.....mine has the light in it and all....what gives with this part?

-- do you remove the cross pin at the lower end of the shaft or leave it alone? If you have to replace it what is the best way to remove the old one?

Ironically, I pulled the column to ease working on the pot coupler to get rid of the slop I have...The pot coupler looked surprisingly in good shape and had grease packed in it and all, though the seal is shot....so I fear that the slop I have is in the missing parts and not the pot coupler...