Timing again...

[Mopewbie]

Hi all, I've been reading many threads about timing and would like to double check what to do in my car.

Stock 318 with a pertronix ignition.

I can't see the mark under any circumstances. I know the mark exists in the balancer but when I use the lamp, it's not aligned with the timing cover, can't see it at all.
I tried the lamp in all the cylinders and can't see the mark.

SO....
1- Bring it to TDC on Cyl1, both valves closed (compression stroke)
2- rotate the distributor until points to cyl 1

If I can't do that.... remove the distributor and manually (screwdriver) rotate the oil pump until it sets properly?

From the moment the car is on, to adjust timing I can't go on 2000 or 3000 RPM because I have no RPM counter. Have to rely on disconnecting vaccum and lamp ONLY.

Is that right? Car has an edelbrock and only starts if I hold the gas pedal down, like if it was flooded. (not flooded, that happens without pressing it before starting)

Thanks

 

[Challenger RTA]

Static time it. See if it lines up. Wrong timing cover, 180 out? Is there a mark on the damper? Vacuum line off distributor and plugged.

 

[Mopewbie]

I forgot to add something, after valves closed, make sure the mark is lined up and check the cables?
Firing order could be wrong.

 

[Challenger RTA]

If I can't do that.... remove the distributor and manually (screwdriver) rotate the oil pump until it sets properly?

When you bring the the motor to top dead center. Is the rotor pointing to #1 on the the distributor? Or close? #1 is pretty much in front of cap. If not you more than likely need to rest the distributor gear. Remember the gear rotates as it slides in. Might take a few tries to get it right. I have seen them dropped in 180 out and will still run. Depends where the plug wires are at. The distributor end is a slot. Can be put in 180 out. If I recall. Pump drive is hex. But it moves easily.

 

[MoparCarGuy]

Timing Setup for reference from the 1970 Plymouth Service Manual, Section 9, pages 36 & 37.

As noted earlier in the thread, there are two different timing covers for these engines. One has the timing marks on the driver side and the other has them on the passenger side. These marks are, from memory, 90° from each other. Your balancer's factory mark must match the timing cover so you could have a mismatch there.

A worn out timing chain could throw off timing as well but start with the basic oil pump drive setup and find the balancer's mark (0° at TDC) with the engine NOT running.
To be clear...
1. Rotate engine to TDC on the compression stroke for #1 Cylinder. You might need to use a piston stop tool to get exactly TDC. Your existing balancer's timing mark may not be of help.
2. Remove distributor cap and note where the rotor was pointing.
3. Remove distributor holddown clamp and pull the distributor. You may want to label your wires or at least verify they go to the correct cylinders for the timing order (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2).
4. Check oil pump drive shaft slot's alignment. It should be pointing to the intake manifold bolt in the diagram below. If not, use a long flat screwdriver and rotate it up and drop it down to align the slot with that bolt.
5. Reinstall the distributor with the rotor pointing to the front of the engine. Note the rotor position when you started may have been wrong which would mean your spark plug wires will need to be pulled and reinstalled correctly.
6. Look at the balancer's timing mark (line on balancer). It should match the timing covers 0° mark. If not, that is a balancer or timing cover issue.

Let us know what you find.

 

[MoparCarGuy]

Provided more detail above to get this Mopar running!

 

[Mopewbie]

Timing Setup for reference from the 1970 Plymouth Service Manual, Section 9, pages 36 & 37.

Let us know what you find.


View attachment 135267

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. I'm replacing suspension bits at the moment but certainly will look into it soon. My cover is the one on the LEFT in your picture.
I same similar issue with the Challenger, timing mark completely off. It'd be nice to "fix" both cars.

I'll certainly keep you updated. Thank you.

 

[MoparCarGuy]

The one on the left is the correct timing chain cover for all E-Body LA small-block engines. The balancer (and its mark) could still be wrong but even if it is, you can make a new mark on the balancer once you have the engine at TDC #1 Cylinder on the compression stroke. A piston stop tool would be the preferred way to find exact TDC.
Adding a timing tape is a possible fix but having a correct factory balancer or aftermarket balancer would be preferred.

Also, I forgot to mention that the early-LA engines had the timing mark on the passenger side because the water pump inlet neck (coolant from radiator) was on the opposite side. Otherwise, the timing mark would have been blocked by the water pump inlet.

This changed for later-LA engines: water pump inlet was moved to the passenger side and timing mark to the driver side.

 

[Mopewbie]

Here's where I am so far...
I'm still doing suspension but HAD TO have a quick look into timing.

I didn't touch anything, just checked where things are... so with the timing aligned (or so) the distributor is pointing to cylinder 2!
(Maybe in this Car number 1 is on the LEFT? )

Did 2 full turns to make sure both valves are in the closed position as per video here:

Leads are correct considering the actual setup.


When valves are open it points to the driver (just as an extra info)