1970 440 SE? OR RTSE?

[wannadrag29]

I happened to stumble across a ( supposed) u code Challenger SE buried in a garage, cant see the vin. It does have the rear panel and formal window and a ralley cluster.
( I've known of this car for years and have talked w the owner briefly)
My question is, If this was a true U code 440 challenger, wouldn't it be an RTSE?
It is buried In a garage w no driver door or driver fender or grill, The emblem that would call it out on the sail panel is not there, (neither is the vinyl top) Couldn't see the pass door panel or the seats as its buried in garage stuff. I didn't look up to see if the overhead console was there or not.
car has no motor/trans, but was an auto, 8 3/4 rear, a/c, and TRIPLE BLACK.
Sitting on keystones and Cragar SS's w mild rear fender flares.Straight out of the 70's.
I've been after this car for over 15 years, and i spoke w him today and looks like he may be wanting to sell it and a parts 70 6 cyl as well.
So, if it is a 440 car should it also be an RTSE? or just an SE?

 

[340challconvert]

A car with an original 440 and small back window would be an RT/SE. Need to look for the data plate in the engine compartment or dash serial number plate. The codes should read and as you mentioned, an engine code U for a 440 engine.

The 8 3/4 rear could have been installed with the 440 engine since the car has factory air (usually no Dana with the factory air) so the axle would be correct, most likely 3:23's.

Best case scenario, a build sheet in the usual places that matches the serial number (inside bucket, under glove box, inside back seat, under rug) would verify the pedigree. A triple black RT SE would be cool and rare.

Do your due diligence to verify what the car is and good luck. It would be a great find!

 

[340challconvert]

PS
I once owned an RT SE 440, automatic w air and power windows, red w black interior and roof. It was a great car. Can't wait to hear how this pans out for you?

 

[quapman]

The VIN will tell the tale. Should be JS29U0. Non R/T will be JH29*0. Whatever the case, keep us informed and take some pics!

 

[DetMatt1]

A car with an original 440 and small back window would be an RT/SE. Need to look for the data plate in the engine compartment or dash serial number plate. The codes should read and as you mentioned, an engine code U for a 440 engine.

The 8 3/4 rear could have been installed with the 440 engine since the car has factory air (usually no Dana with the factory air) so the axle would be correct, most likely 3:23's.

Best case scenario, a build sheet in the usual places that matches the serial number (inside bucket, under glove box, inside back seat, under rug) would verify the pedigree. A triple black RT SE would be cool and rare.

Do your due diligence to verify what the car is and good luck. It would be a great find!

Wouldn’t there only be a Dana with the 4 speed?

 

[quapman]

My memory isn't the best, but I think an 8-3/4 would be standard. You'd have to upgrade to a Track-Pack or STP for a Dana.

 

[340challconvert]

I believe the 8 3/4 was standard on the RT cars with 3:23 gears.
It looks like the dana was never available if your ordered AC.
My comment on the dana axle becomes moot with the factory ac on this garage find car!
Was the A33 dana package standard with the 4 speed 440, 6pk
and hemi cars?

 

[704406]

I believe all 440 4 speed cars were equipped with a dana rear with a U or V code engine.
727 Equipped cars would be a 8 3/4 rear axle unless ordered with a super performance axle (4.10)
My 70 Hemi Cuda had a 727 auto and was a 8 3/4 3.55 rear, my 70 440-6 Cuda 727 auto is a super performance axle 4.10 Dana rear.
The triple black does sound cool whether it's an RT or an RTSE!

 

[wannadrag29]

Guys, Thanks for ALL the reply's.
I was under the impression that ALL 1970 440 challengers would HAVE to be an RT, ( as well as all 440 6 pacs, and 426 cars).
This car looks to be an SE for sure.
The owner states that it is an 440 car , I have no reason to doubt him as he has lived in the same house in the same neighborhood as me for over 40 years. ( he is 73 years old).
My buddy had tried to purchase the 6 cyl car in 2005, and the car disappeared( we thought it was sold). I drove by yesterday and saw the garage open with the 6 cyl and the SE sitting there so I talked with him again.
After speaking with him yesterday sounds like he wants to let them go this year.
He said he wanted 25k for the pair a while back. The market is definitely not back to 2006 levels (IMO), but for now I'm playing it cool. Left my # and told him to call me when he comes up with a #. I also told him I'd be glad to give him an offer, i just need to be able to see the cars.
25k might be ok, but, I'd have to see both the cars, but cant even get around them with so much stuff around and on top of the cars.
Being that the engine and trans are gone, It will hurt the value, but the real value or loss of value would be in whether the data plate and build sheet are in the car.

 

[quapman]

To be clear, yes, all 440 Challengers in 70-71 were R/Ts. (JS)

 

[340challconvert]

To be clear, yes, all 440 Challengers in 70-71 were R/Ts. (JS)

Yes, all the Challengers with a factory installed 440 would be an RT. The SE package was available to be added on all Challenger hardtops in 1970.
Interesting though the variety of rear axles available on the 440-and hemi cars contingent upon the other options ordered!

The red RT/SE 440 automatic car w AC that I once owned had an 8 3/4 rear with 3:23 gears.

The B-7 Challenger RT I owned before the red one was a 440-6 w a shaker and automatic had the optional A-34 dana package w the 4:10's
Really wish I still owned that one!

 

[aussiemark]

There was only one option to get a Dana in a Torqueflite 440 or Hemi car that was the Super Performance Axle Package and it was only available with the 4.10 ratio so the only way to get 3.54 would be to order this axle then get the dealership workshop to change it.

 

[70RTSE440]

Thought I would chime in. Sounds like all the answers are correct as far as I know. My car is a 70 RTSE 440 4bbl 4spd with a Dana 60 4:10 rear end from the factory. No A/C. I don't know enough about all the option packages to know what other options were available but i do know they built them like the one I have!

 

[704406]

I just came across this book in my stash it's for a Cuda but might supply some answers about Dana's and option packages. I forgot I had it makes interesting reading!

 

[cudamark]

A couple of things I'd want to know before going much further.....why are the door and fender not there? Wrecked? Unibody ok? Does he know where the original engine/trans went? Look on the pink slip for the VIN. No pink? I'd be real careful and check every VIN stamping I could find.

 

[wannadrag29]

Yeah I went back the next day to get more info and was denied.
I hope i at least get a chance at it before it goes. Been sitting well over 35 years.
no doubt check all #'s.

 

[340challconvert]

wannadrag
Hope the owner gives you the opportunity to check out the Challengers and he considers letting them go.
Many cars are being "kept" by the owner for restoration and as the owners age out, the cars just sit and/or sadly, eventually end up as part of the estate.
It is tough to let them go when you have owned them for so long.

 

[wannadrag29]

I have tried for years.
This time he said he is selling "later" this year, which can be next month or 3 years from now.
I am patient and just want a chance at it.
Many a time I've been angling for a car only to see it on a flat bed going away.
i'm fortunate to have at least I caught him at the right time and was able to talk to him about it and leave my number.

 

[Cuda Hunter]

Keep trying. And next time please take a picture of the junk filled cars. Love those pictures!
Good luck!