add a leaf spring

[Eli'scoupe]

It's kind of like buying lift kits for pick ups. The really good kits will come with re-arched leafs. The cheaper kits come with just a few parts which throw off the suspension geometry. Guess which one most guys go after? Guess which one is better?

But, then again, you could take a page out of my old man's book. He got tired of the Mopar leaf sag on his M-body and built a stack of springs for it from a '76 F250 parts truck! No matter how you loaded the trunk that car wasn't gonna drag it's bumper.

Seems like shock extenders or air shocks would cause the same damage to upper shock mounts. I checked my mounts after removing air shocks and B4 installing the QA1's and fortunately mine were'nt damaged. Unfortuntely I won't ever have to worry about numbers matching parts as I do not have either a fender tag or door tag. If I used shock extenders or air shocks I would only use them until such time as I could afford to do it right. I would keep thinking about how many times per mile those shocks and springs were working and it would drive me nuts. lol

 

[Eli'scoupe]

You can add 2 leafs / side , if you use the shorter leafs you have to be careful to match the lengths up so shorter ones are not above longer ones . Get proper center bolts from a spring store or online , center bolts have a taller head to fit into the locator hole in the spring seats & are threaded all the way up , regular bolts will not work.
I agree that shock extenders are only to make a shock reach when the wrong / short shock is reused , this will nto lift the car & using shocks to lift the rear will damage the crossmember as it is not designed to take the load of the weight of the car

I agree. Shorter leaves above longer ones will break leaf springs

 

[Moparparts]

Thanks for the pics Adam yes this can happen with air shocks especially after the springs get weak i have over 100,000 miles on my AAR and i have load levelers on it for years and no damage to the crossmember or the trunk trunk floor that is why i mentioned them as an alternative to adding leafs . I have never seen that on a 68-70 B-Body as i mentioned in my post including my own 70 RR i owned in 73 and ran high jackers and 3 inch extensions

I agree with Leo and Chryco; This car only had 92k miles and air shocks. The upper shock cross member is too thin to support the weight of the car. Also, you will not be able to easily see the damage as it is on top of the crossmember and under the trunk floor. View attachment 15260View attachment 15261

 

[Adam]

I dont know anything about load levelers, but I do know that metal is too thin to support the car for long. You may get away with it for a long time, but why risk expensive damage to the crossmember when the proper way is so easy?

Also, you cannot see the damage unless you pull one of the shock plugs in the trunk pan.

 

[Moparparts]

Thanks for your pics, input and respectful disagreement as well as your honesty about not having knowledge about the load levelers. The new gas charged load levelers are not too firm and are not damaging to the crossmember on any cars i ever used them on for a long time. I never worried about damaging the crossmember with them or air shocks as i knew how to use them. I even ran 3 inch extensions many times with high jackers years ago and never damaged a crossmember but as i mentioned i DO NOT recommend them. The gas charged load levelers where not designed to lift the car only to stabilize it. While the ones i use do provide some lift so does many times even a new regular shock when installed and that don't make them a bad thing. I always like to hear varying opinions on an open forum but it seems sometimes if you have a different one from the flow it gets shot down or ran down with-out some people even having any knowledge or experience about pros or cons of alternatives. Yes as i explained extended air shocks and especially when extensions are used can be a problem and where most often inflated higher than the manufactures recommendations but again that does not make using and air shock the way it is supposed to be used that bad of a thing either otherwise they would have never sold a few million of them and still do.The crossmembers where not damaged on cars i parted and i know that because i completely dismantled them including removing the crossmembers if they where not rusted out or collision damaged.

I dont know anything about load levelers, but I do know that metal is too thin to support the car for long. You may get away with it for a long time, but why risk expensive damage to the crossmember when the proper way is so easy?

Also, you cannot see the damage unless you pull one of the shock plugs in the trunk pan.

 

[moparleo]

How about we end this thread with the following caveat... The vehicle manufacturer did not endorse shock extenders or airshocks when the car was designed and manufactured. Some people will say that in Their experience that they had no problems when others will say that it did cause problems. Both are correct.

When in doubt, Go with the people who designed the car, not the one who took it apart.

If this were a new car, the factory warranty would be voided by adding suspension parts that were not offered as O.E.M .

 

[Chryco Psycho]

double post

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Makes sense to me !
You can make things work that were never designed to , it doesn't make it right & it may not last !

 

[Moparparts]

How about we add this. That information is not correct in all applications even some US car manufactures offered air shocks from the factory

 

[ramenth]

How 'bout if we let Dave determine to "end" this thread if it's answered the questions he's had?

 

[74 challenger]

Thanks guys for all your help. If you want to close the thread its all good. We all have our own opinions and I think we should honor them.

 

[ramenth]

Dave, it's all good. Sometimes these threads will devolve into tangents.

The suggestion that the conversation be "ended?" Well, that just kind of smacked, to me, as somewhat on the arrogant side, considering the OP's *ahem* input is invaluable considering the OP *ahem* is the one who started the conversation seeking answers to a question...

At that point, well...

Be assured that there will be no closing of the thread and the topic can go on for as long as others may want to engage in it, regardless if others don't.

Myself, I've been wondering about the question to begin with as to what you're attempting. Forgive me for not being able to see it in your original post, but when I saw the "add a leaf" topic for me it read as if you were asking about the generic, come in a box from your local parts store, add a leafs which bolt onto the spring pack behind the axle.

 

[Avalanche]

I liked this thread, it had different ideas and opinions. You read and learn from different people who have tried different methods. Isnt that what discussion forums are all about?

 

[ramenth]

Isnt that what discussion forums are all about?

Exactly.

One thing about threads like this it comes with the caveat of a disclaimer like you see on all the fine print for the infomercials on TV. "Results not typical, experiences my vary."

I've run the "add a leafs" like I was describing and they failed, miserably, at what they were supposed to do. I've built my own springs and had good results. I've put air shocks on cars which probably shouldn't have had any. They worked.

As far as the loading on the shock crossmember, the biggest failure I've ever had was on my '69 Sport Satellite. Good shocks beat the snot out of the crossmember, mainly because of rust. If you dig deep enough, you'll see a lot of times the failure has underlying causes. That goes for a lot of mechanical things.

It's one of the things that seperates diagnosticians from wrenches. The wrench replaces the parts and falls back on the warranty. The diagnostician is replacing the part, but trying to figure out why it failed early or why it lasted so long so as to keep a repeat failure from happening.

 

[74 challenger]

I wanted to take my old set apart and add one to the new set.

 

[moparleo]

You can do it just to see if it accomplishes your goal knowing that you can always have a set built for you at a reasonable price. My shops motto was " DO WHAT YOU DO, DON'T DO WHAT YOU DON'T DO" In other words do the types of work that you have the experience and know how to do. Don't experiment on a customers car. Know your limits.
That said, it is your car so have at it, we will be here to help.

 

[74 challenger]

Well I took the old springs apart today and going to get the longer center pin tomorrow.Was easy to do,used c-clamps and vise grips for the center pin. Will post pics asap.

 

[moparleo]

Perfect time to disassemble the leafs, clean, paint and put new sound dampers ( nylon inserts ) between the leafs.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Just adding one extra main leaf with the ends trimmed ?

 

[ramenth]

You can do it just to see if it accomplishes your goal knowing that you can always have a set built for you at a reasonable price. My shops motto was " DO WHAT YOU DO, DON'T DO WHAT YOU DON'T DO" In other words do the types of work that you have the experience and know how to do. Don't experiment on a customers car. Know your limits.
That said, it is your car so have at it, we will be here to help.

Leo, I have to ask, since you brought it up... then how did your guys know their limits?

I had plenty of times in my career where I didn't know how to do something, had only seen it done, but volunteered to do it so I could gain the hands on experience. I did it with my first frame pull and then, when I switched to the mechanical side that's what I did for computer diagnostics. I had guys in the shops I could ask questions of and ask for help if needed so I had back-up. Being able to wade in and not being afraid to take on something I'd never done, gaining the experience that way was what lead me to being the go-to guy in the last dealership I was in and gave me the confidence and skill to open my own shop.

I've been on the other end, too, with a fellow tech diagnosing a bad water pump on a car with the water pumps being run by the timing belt. I had him tear it down to the pump and I showed him how to put everything in time to take to the belt off. He changed the pump and I strung the new belt, showing him how. The next job, he did himself, with just me looking everything over before he buttoned it up. A new skill learned and now I wasn't the only guy in the shop who knew how to do this.