Bone stock original 70 440 valve train noise

[WhiteGP]

Me again, My 70 cuda has the bone stock 54 year old 440 in it, Going to have the timing chain replaced in 2 weeks. I can fix MOST things on the car, so far have replaced speedo pinion and cable, carb, got an electronic distributor on the bench and a number of other things but I'm not what you would call and "internal" expert by any means ( yea I'm getting better ) . I have a very noisy ( loud) valve train on the 2-8 side that is bothering me. I have had a few comments that I have an exhaust leak but I was thinking that an exhaust leak but would not have alot of clatter noise to it? The 1-7 side is quiet and normal ( or so it appears ). I have plans to have the motor rebuilt ( After Jan 1 ). Could a blown exhaust gasket cause all the noise ? I'm not against pulling the manifold and replacing the gasket but before I go thru that wanted a 2nd opinion. May just live with it until rebuild.

THANKS !!!!

 

[Daves69]

Oil pressure good?

Is there a heat riser flapping in the exhaust manifold outlet?
for reference.......

Heat Riser Kit 66-69 383 440 HP | Roseville Moparts

Heat Riser Kit 66-69 383 440 HP 1966-69 Big Block 440 383 High Performance Heat Riser Kit (adaptable to Low Performance) Parts are better than OEM, Stainless anti-rattle spring & pin, new CAD stampings made in the USA, correct hardware, high temp cloth on stainless spring steel for the bump...

www.rosevillemoparts.com

 

[WhiteGP]

Oil pressure good?

Is there a heat riser flapping in the exhaust manifold outlet?
for reference.......

Heat Riser Kit 66-69 383 440 HP | Roseville Moparts

Heat Riser Kit 66-69 383 440 HP 1966-69 Big Block 440 383 High Performance Heat Riser Kit (adaptable to Low Performance) Parts are better than OEM, Stainless anti-rattle spring & pin, new CAD stampings made in the USA, correct hardware, high temp cloth on stainless spring steel for the bump...

www.rosevillemoparts.com

I thought about the heat riser but I dont think so, I remember what my 318 heat riser sounded like flapping around... I'm 95% sure this is rocker arms, could be a worn out rocker assembly but I would think it wouldn't be just one side, BUT you have a point, I do need to look at that and not "assume" , There is a video attached to the thread, it might not be good enough tho... and yes, the oil pressure is on the high side.

whats the best way to test that, wedge the riser open maybe and start up ?

may not be related, Im watching "Nicks Garage" episode "What Happened? 1970 Dodge Charger 440 Magnum Tear down" he pulls the right exhaust manifold and sees a crack, and makes the comment "Very common on the 440 HP right manifold"

I can easily tear the motor down, but then have to get it back together

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

Me again, My 70 cuda has the bone stock 54 year old 440 in it, Going to have the timing chain replaced in 2 weeks. I can fix MOST things on the car, so far have replaced speedo pinion and cable, carb, got an electronic distributor on the bench and a number of other things but I'm not what you would call and "internal" expert by any means ( yea I'm getting better ) . I have a very noisy ( loud) valve train on the 2-8 side that is bothering me. I have had a few comments that I have an exhaust leak but I was thinking that an exhaust leak but would not have alot of clatter noise to it? The 1-7 side is quiet and normal ( or so it appears ). I have plans to have the motor rebuilt ( After Jan 1 ). Could a blown exhaust gasket cause all the noise ? I'm not against pulling the manifold and replacing the gasket but before I go thru that wanted a 2nd opinion. May just live with it until rebuild.

THANKS !!!!

Does the sound appear more prominent at idle or at higher RPM's? Often the OE style lifters will get gunk in them and not pump up properly causing too much play in the valvetrain. One way to know if you have an exhaust leak is to get some small rubber tubing (like for the windshield washer size) and put one end in your ear and pass the other end around the exhaust manifold. You will be able to tell if you have an exhaust leak at the manifold flange by doing this.

If it was me, I would consider running a bottle of engine flush through your engine per the instructions & changing the oil & filter afterward. If your lifters have gunk in them this may help the situation until you can pull the engine for a full rebuild.

 

[Challenger RTA]

I would work with the lesser evil to start. I would pull the valve covers and check if the push rods are tight, If not it could be a lifter.Better then bending a push rod or coming through the valve cover. If not get a propane torch better than nothing. Heat the exhaust nuts to remove. It's sounding like exhaust leak. you might have more then one problem.

 

[fasjac]

Yea, pull those valve covers and take a peak

 

[Chryco Psycho]

It could be a collapsed lifter or even a worn cam , the tips of the rockers can wear & click but normally this is prevalent when going to a high lift cam , could also be a bent pushrod although rare .

 

[Mopar Nut]

What weight of oil are you running?

 

[WhiteGP]

Does the sound appear more prominent at idle or at higher RPM's? Often the OE style lifters will get gunk in them and not pump up properly causing too much play in the valvetrain. One way to know if you have an exhaust leak is to get some small rubber tubing (like for the windshield washer size) and put one end in your ear and pass the other end around the exhaust manifold. You will be able to tell if you have an exhaust leak at the manifold flange by doing this.

If it was me, I would consider running a bottle of engine flush through your engine per the instructions & changing the oil & filter afterward. If your lifters have gunk in them this may help the situation until you can pull the engine for a full rebuild.

Hi, It seems to be more prevalent at idle but I'll check verify that today. I do get a the rattle when i hit the gas a little also I had the covers off a month ago ( added MOPAR Performance covers) and I dont recall seeing any of gunk on the top end, looked pretty clean but y'all have a point, it could be lifters not pumping up enough oil and actually that kinda fits the symptoms. Oil pressure is on the high side and the oil is recent BUT a good engine flush/ oil change is not a bad idea at all, definitely worth a try. Will do that today ! Also, Like the home made stethoscope idea, I'm old and very hard of hearing, I might need to use a radiator hose.

As always Thanks for good advice guys

 

[WhiteGP]

What weight of oil are you running?

Hi

You know I have no Idea, Got the car 4 months ago and it had a fresh oil change, The guy I bought it from is a MOPAR guy and I would think its 20w40 with Zinc ( I verified the zinc ) I have a bottle of zinc on the shelf, I have under 50 miles on the car since I got it. I think I will run some engine flush and change today like mentioned in the other thread. I plan to run Castrol GTX Classic High Zinc 20w50 but dont have any on hand. I'm a fan of GTX.

Thanks !

 

[Mopar Nut]

Hi

You know I have no Idea, Got the car 4 months ago and it had a fresh oil change, The guy I bought it from is a MOPAR guy and I would think its 20w40 with Zinc ( I verified the zinc ) I have a bottle of zinc on the shelf, I have under 50 miles on the car since I got it. I think I will run some engine flush and change today like mentioned in the other thread. I plan to run Castrol GTX Classic High Zinc 20w50 but dont have any on hand. I'm a fan of GTX.

Thanks !

I accidentally used 20W 50 VR1 in my big block and had lifter noise. I switched out to 10W 30 VR1, the lifter noise went away.

 

[WhiteGP]

Does the sound appear more prominent at idle or at higher RPM's? Often the OE style lifters will get gunk in them and not pump up properly causing too much play in the valvetrain. One way to know if you have an exhaust leak is to get some small rubber tubing (like for the windshield washer size) and put one end in your ear and pass the other end around the exhaust manifold. You will be able to tell if you have an exhaust leak at the manifold flange by doing this.

If it was me, I would consider running a bottle of engine flush through your engine per the instructions & changing the oil & filter afterward. If your lifters have gunk in them this may help the situation until you can pull the engine for a full rebuild.

I accidentally used 20W 50 VR1 in my big block and had lifter noise. I switched out to 10W 30 VR1, the lifter noise went away.

Interesting, Yea I can see where 50 weight might be too much thinking about it after more coffee I'll use 10w30 today to get the viscosity flowing after the flush.

Thanks

 

[Xcudame]

I'd pull the valve cover (easy to do - especially if you use the fancy reusable ones) and check tightness of everything and look down the pushrod holes at the cam and lifters. You can check pushrods and rocker arms for looseness by checking each cylinder at top dead center (removing spark plugs helps turn over the engine easier). If a rocker arm is loose most of its travel, you've narrowed down you internal problem. By the way, exhaust manifold leaks are usually loader at idle.
One of the best tools you can invest in is a bore scope that Bluetooth's to your cellphone. You can get into tight spaces and look around. The one pictured below is what I use. Even has a 90* lens. $44 on Amazon.

 

[WhiteGP]

Thanks everyone !

First off I did the motor flush, turned clean oil into very ugly oil, Did the oil change and added a little MMO ( Not sure it really works but ? ) still very noisy, pulled the cover and as expected very noisy 4 and 6 rockers, pushrod's all seemed tight but i did have some side play in the rockers ( normal? ) Just to get the rocker question out of the way I ordered a set from 440 Source, a fairly cheap way ( $139 ) for stamped rockers and a new shaft to quickly see if that's the issue. If its not, I will live with it until rebuild in Jan.

 

[WhiteGP]

I'd pull the valve cover (easy to do - especially if you use the fancy reusable ones) and check tightness of everything and look down the pushrod holes at the cam and lifters. You can check pushrods and rocker arms for looseness by checking each cylinder at top dead center (removing spark plugs helps turn over the engine easier). If a rocker arm is loose most of its travel, you've narrowed down you internal problem. By the way, exhaust manifold leaks are usually loader at idle.
One of the best tools you can invest in is a bore scope that Bluetooth's to your cellphone. You can get into tight spaces and look around. The one pictured below is what I use. Even has a 90* lens. $44 on Amazon.

View attachment 128352

View attachment 128354

Ordered one, it was on sale for $39.99 ! Thanks

 

[WhiteGP]

Thanks everyone !

First off I did the motor flush, turned clean oil into very ugly oil, Did the oil change and added a little MMO ( Not sure it really works but ? ) still very noisy, pulled the cover and as expected very noisy 4 and 6 rockers, pushrod's all seemed tight but i did have some side play in the rockers ( normal? ) Just to get the rocker question out of the way I ordered a set from 440 Source, a fairly cheap way ( $139 ) for stamped rockers and a new shaft to quickly see if that's the issue. If its not, I will live with it until rebuild in Jan.

I'm going to replace the lifters and rocker assembly's .... parts / gaskets are on the way, plus I will get a chance to re-paint intake and new valley pan Rockers had plenty of oil pumped up so I think the lifters and pushrods are working well but lets add some new parts to the old girl

 

[larry4406]

I'm going to replace the lifters and rocker assembly's .... parts / gaskets are on the way, plus I will get a chance to re-paint intake and new valley pan Rockers had plenty of oil pumped up so I think the lifters and pushrods are working well but lets add some new parts to the old girl

Do old cams play nice with new lifters?

I thought the two like to wear in to each other.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

You can visually see the lobes on the cam through the opening in the block with the intake off , i would look for a damaged lobe First
You could have problems with new lifters on an old cam

 

[WhiteGP]

Do old cams play nice with new lifters?

I thought the two like to wear in to each other.

Well, good advice guys and this shows my inexperience, since the rockers are getting oil and the lifters are working sounds like i need to leave alone and just replace the rockers with the new oem stamped ones. Thanks for saving me from myself again I'll stop after that and just wait for the rebuild

 

[WhiteGP]

You can visually see the lobes on the cam through the opening in the block with the intake off , i would look for a damaged lobe First
You could have problems with new lifters on an old cam

Thanks, per below thanks for saving me from myself again, I'm pulling the intake and will take a close look. question on the new rockers, which are the factory stamped ones from 440source, would you bleed the lifters before installing the new rockers ? KEEPING each lifter in its original spot so they re-adjust, or pull, clean up, and re-install one by one, the instructions are in the FSM and there pretty simple or just leave alone ?

Thanks