Can someone please tell me this isn’t the secret vin area

[70chall440]

So, I have looked at all of your pictures and nothing I see in them would point to anything conclusive. Its possible that it was stolen somewhere a long the way, its just as likely (and more probable) that it was a derelict sitting in a field that didn't have a title that someone decided to make into a car (or flip) using a title and VIN from another car.

On the cowl, if someone welding up the numbers you should be able to feel them from underneath unless they cut them out and welded in a new piece of metal. Its just as possible that it was damaged and someone fixed it along the way.

I think you are getting way too deep into this (IMO). If you have a VIN and a title, I'd build the car and call it done. The pictures show a typical "old" dodge back in the day, essentially a parts car that someone scrounged parts for to try and put together or flip. I would not get wrapped around the axle about all this numbers crap UNLESS you bought the car because it was advertised as something specific (color combo, specific drive train, etc.) in which case you should have made the seller prove the claims in at least one way.

Put another way; if the seller said it was a 6 pack car, then there better be a V in the VIN to start with, then it should have torque boxes but other than that there is no way to tell. As to the color combo, unless you have at least a fender tag, anything is possible. You have to remember that these cars did not live an easy life and were hot rodded and beat to death, it is only when the values began to climb that anyone gave a crap.

In closing, you have what the title and VIN say you have, nothing more. As to it being a rebodied car or stolen, Id challenge someone to prove it numbers or not. That car needs ALOT of work but if you love it (Challengers) then its worth doing, but it is not going to be cheap or quick because it looks like it needs about everything.

Think it if as a "clean slate", you can make it into whatever you want.

What is the VIN number of the car?

 

[70chall440]

I have tried to read through all of this and I have saw it is a challenge, your story is a bit chaotic to say the least. So, you paid $10K for a roller that is a 318 car and was supposed to have a 440 with it but it does not have any main caps?

I hate to say this but it appears to me that you got yourself into this mess by not doing your own research in the first place, knowing what you are buying in the 2nd and believing the seller in the 3rd. But, I will tell you that it has happened to most of us on here at one time or another, we let our passion cloud our common sense and ended up getting stung. It sucks but it happens.

I am not sure where you are getting this stolen car business from or why you think this car is stolen but if it is, then thats another issue. Don't assume that because the numbers are not visible on the cowl or radiator support that the car is stolen, its more likely it was hit in the front and someone replaced the front sheet metal.

Its hard to decipher exactly what you thought you were getting but one look at the VIN should have told you that you bought a basic 318 hardtop Challenger. If old Dave had told you that it was special in some way, he was full of crap but that would be hard to prove.

As to all of your other comments about him and how he does business, maintains his cars, etc. Up until someone takes delivery those cars are his to do with whatever he wants. If he doesn't have cars covered that he is selling, well thats up to him and really not at all relevant to your case.

I get that you are pissed off, and perhaps rightfully so to a degree but as with all sales the term "Caveat emptor" (buyer beware) is always first and foremost. Most sellers are going to talk up whatever they are selling to get the price they want, it is up to you the buyer to counter the discussion with facts. Your whole part about loading the car before it was paid for is interesting; if I was the seller I would not load anything before I had the money, so him loading it first means he was pretty sure he was getting paid, why was that the case?

I think you are looking at this all wrong, these are just cars (aka commodities) to be bought and sold. They have value so the worst type of people are involved in the process but in the end they are not religious artifacts or something that is sacred, just cars. Based on what you have written (and what I can understand of it), you are making a lot more of this than needs to be. I think you got screwed to a degree due to what you bought and how much you paid for it but to be blunt, that is on you not Dave unless I am missing something.

Build the car and enjoy it

 

[AUSTA]

If you are uncomfortable with authenticity of your purchase it is probably best to step away from the project before you spent to much time & money on it I can see from your posts you would never stop worrying about it you wouldn't be the first I too have made some poor decisions in the past regarding vehicle purchases.

 

[AUSTA]

Your car your call.
That car looks very straight & well aligned .

 

[70chall440]

Look I am not trying to be a dick here but do you read what you write? It is so hard to figure out what you are trying to say. So far my take away from this is;

1. you think the car is stolen - why do you think this? What proof do you have that this is the case? If it is the missing numbers, I think you are are jumping to a conclusion that may not be there.
2. At first you were talking about a possible 6 pack car but clearly you have a plain jane 318 AT Challenger - nothing wrong with that, great place to build from
3. you were talking about some unique color combination - where did this come from?
4. now you are talking about the car being an SE because of a vinyl roof and some holes in the sail panel - well hate to tell you that you do not have a SE because your VIN is JH23, if it was JH29 it would be a SE, and "oh by the way" vinyl tops were very common on E bodies.
5. you believe Dave mislead you - probably did, thats what used car guys do. He is going to "church up" the car as much as he can in order to get the most he can. Your job as the buyer is to see through the BS and know when you are being fed a line of crap. However, if the price of the car is worth it regardless of what the seller says, then so be it.

It seems to me that you have a common case of buyers remorse. You wanted the car and you moved heaven and earth to get it and once you had it and the "newness" wore off a little to where you could see clearly you realized you did not buy what you thought you were buying. I hate to say it but if you paid $10K for that car, Dave made out like a bandit. That said, you now own it so its time to decide what to do with it, you have 3 options since Dave isn't going to take it back;

1. do nothing and let it sit
2. sell if off and try and get back as much as you can
3. build the car

Clearly you wanted an E body, now you have one. Get to work and build the car, build it into whatever configuration that you see in your head and make it your own. Know that you are going to be upside down financially in this car (already are IMO) but if you are building it for yourself, it doesn't matter.

 

[Cuda Hunter]

Thanks for the pics!
That's quite the project. Looks like it has great structure though. Just have to fix those rails.

 

[70chall440]

A few questions/comments;

• How old are you?
• You say you "think" it is a SE, what does the title say?
• The car looks to have been F8 green.
• The holes in the trunk rail area are probably for the rear taillight bright panel, however there is no telling when it was put there
• Do not believe most of the crap you read in ads online like "its a JH with all of the JS parts for shows..." does not make any sense at all if someone is saying Mopar did this, now if some individual did it then I'd believe that.

 

[Challenger RTA]

The statute of limitations for the felony of "Taking Motor Vehicle Without Permission," "Theft of a Motor Vehicle" or "Possession of Stolen Property" all have a three year statute of limitation for criminal prosecution. Even if the person who contacted you is a legal holder-in-due-course, your right as the lawful owner supersedes their right of possession, and at a minimum law enforcement should facilitate the return of the vehicles and investigate the caller for the crime of possession of stolen property.
Check the State where stolen and State where discovered. some might be 6 years.
Look for a second vin to match title in all locations others have described. Find a second vin I would say legit,could be missing as others have said rust repair,collision.
I wouldn't be concerned of a stolen car,because of the above.Yes I myself would like to know the state of any car when I buy it.
I myself had a T/A go through a vanishing point.I kind of know where it went,just have to prove it and I still have title from the 70's.
Not minimizing you build but is not likely a high dollar car (hope you find different) Like 426 440 6 pak or others. Now if a Hellcat or Demon or something of that order would disappear. The insurance co would the write it off off or would they pursue it for decades?
As far as the torque boxes my other RT 383 4 speed has them.
Be careful for what you wish for,You just might get it! not what you expect.

 

[Cuda Hunter]

I prefer to not hide my mistakes and wear them like badges of honor for a situation that I have overcome and learned that I will not make that mistake again.

Interesting thread...

 

[70chall440]

Alright dude I think I've read as much as I can take. Good luck on your car (whatever it is) and I strongly suggest you seek some professional help for at a minimum the alcoholism.

I am out.

 

[pschlosser]

Sign up for another account, using a different email address, and behave yourself this time.

 

[budascuda]

Sign up for another account, using a different email address, and behave yourself this time.

Not being able to " behave ", I think is the problem !
I wish we could help !

 

[Cuda Hunter]

OR, just make some regular posts here that are not crazy.
Talk about cars and that's it.
Then you will blend in with the other crazies here.

 

[Challenger RTA]

If I had money I’d lift it up on a ram truck suspension and frame with big tires make a se challenger g code mud truck haha.

A good while back. I knew someone that made a 71 4WD. He also had a 71 convertible, he left that alone. I don't think there is any color that would not fit on an E Body. You color looks good. A lot of good parts to worked with, Looks like you been busy. Paint is 90% prep and 10% paint. Keep up the good work.

 

[Cuda Hunter]

Appreciate the update.
Always interesting to see what your up to.
Your art is very good. Thanks for showing some of it.

 

[ceedog]

Question on cowl numbers, my 73 was a rust bucket with roof and rockers left ok. New inner fenders, cowl, firewall, floors, front frames, trans t-bar crossmember, 2”x 3” frame out the back and I back halved it. Like I said roof and rockers were all that left. Was a 318 car nothing special. Should I try to weld in the cowl numbers or just say to he!! with it? Dash and radiator matches title.

 

[Challenger RTA]

Myself if I have it. I would even just tack weld it in place.

 

[70chall440]

I agree that if I had the numbers (stamped metal) and I think I could weld them in and make them look good then I would put them in. If however you weld them in and it looks like crap you will probably cause more drama than not just because some A hole will talk crap about it given a chance.

 

[70chall440]

It looks to be a RT/SE and not is super horrible condition from the pics. I do not think the quarters have been replaced from those pics but hard to say. @ $20K its not a horrible price but its going to cost $100K+ to completely restore it, however it can be built to be a driver for probably $30K or less depending on what is considered acceptable.

 

[70chall440]

Nothing rare about either car, the green car is heavily modified with some questionable work and IMO the price reflects that.