Green Bearings

[BSG]

I installed a set of green bearing had to be 4 or 5 years ago but less than 500 miles ago. Long story short, the Lt rear went out while headed to Las Vegas on the Power Tour. Of course a couple of Mopar Guys pulled over to help and a Motor Trend producer as well. At the time I thought the center section went out and I figured I could swap it out after getting it towed home. While setting back the axels to pull the pumpkin I didn't notice the bearing being smoked so I ended up yanking the gear out and that was when i realized there was nothing wrong there and the bearing was falling apart. After a quick search I realized I wasn't gonna get a replacement and it would need pressing if I were to get so I jumped into one of my Chevy's to finish the trip. How can I tell If I have version 1 or 2 of the green bearing and what about the second version makes them better. To be honest, I wish I would have left the roller tapered bearings in. I can only assume the guy I paid to press them on over did it? I vaguely recall the telling me the amount of pressure he used. I even thought to myself that's overkill? I've read on the different forums that they run forever? However, 2 and from the valley a couple of times through the canyons in Malibu doesn't equate to forever. Maybe I got some cheap Chinese knock offs? If anyone can chime in on version 1 and 2 that would be great!

 

[Xcudame]

Unless it's a drag only car, you're wasting money and time using green bearings! Ball bearings just don't have the load carrying capacity of the Timken roller bearings! It doesn't matter where the green bearings where made or how they where installed. They pretty much suck (as you have found out the hard way) for anything than straight line acceleration.
People will use green bearings to put disc brakes on the rear end because it's easier and I think it's crazy! My 98 Dakota has close to 200,000 mile on it, and I've replace the rear brake shoes at about 180,000 miles. Meanwhile on the front, I'm on my second set of rotors and Fifth set of pads! The rear just doesn't do much, especially on a front disc brake vehicle.

 

[BSG]

Unless it's a drag only car, you're wasting money and time using green bearings! Ball bearings just don't have the load carrying capacity of the Timken roller bearings! It doesn't matter where the green bearings where made or how they where installed. They pretty much suck (as you have found out the hard way) for anything than straight line acceleration.
People will use green bearings to put disc brakes on the rear end because it's easier and I think it's crazy! My 98 Dakota has close to 200,000 mile on it, and I've replace the rear brake shoes at about 180,000 miles. Meanwhile on the front, I'm on my second set of rotors and Fifth set of pads! The rear just doesn't do much, especially on a front disc brake vehicle.

I did 2 of these like that. The other one is a big block 4sp. Going back was my thought train as well. I'm all but sure I tossed all of that stuff. Why cant you run the rear disc brakes with the timkins?

 

[Xcudame]

You can! Check out Scarebird.

1965-72 Dodge, Plymouth "B", "C", "E" body rear disc

 

[moparleo]

Rear disc is just eye candy unless you are a race car. Fronts do 70-90 % of the braking depnding on the brake bias setup.

 

[EV2RTSE]

Why Green Bearings? - Quality Body Shop Drivetrain (Doctordiff.com)

From the article-

"First generation (RP-400) Green bearings, still sold by Mopar Performance and others, are problematic because the crimped-on flange will not allow the bearing to wiggle around inside a housing that is not perfectly straight (none are).

In addition, the design causes the axle to be inserted DEEPER into the housing than necessary. This results in pre-loading against the differential thrust block and early bearing failure.

Second generation (MO-400) snap-ring style Green bearings are forgiving because they can move around inside the housing and they do not preload the differential thrust block in a stock application.

Most guys who have problems with Green bearings are running the RP-400 first generation version or incorrectly made aftermarket axles or housings or poorly designed rear disc brake kits, all of which cause pre-loading and premature bearing failure.

I have several customers running MO-400 snap-ring Green bearings in daily drivers. The design is no different than what came stock in millions of other vehicles, including ’60s era Mopar 7.25″ and Ford 9″ rears. (For example, see here) I do not stock, nor do I recommend the first generation RP-400 Green bearing with the crimped-on 5 hole retainer. I only carry the “loose fit, snap ring style” second generation MO-400 design".

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

Dr Diff sells green bearings on his website. They can be purchased like that or if ordering axles they can be pre-installed. I've never had a problem with his bearings. Yes, the old green bearings had a high failure rate. I had a 69 Charger that used them that failed. Was an ugly situation, for sure.

 

[Mopar Nut]

I only carry the “loose fit, snap ring style” second generation MO-400 design".

Are the axles held into the axle housing by the snap ring on the green bearings?

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

Are the axles held into the axle housing by the snap ring on the green bearings?

No, they are held by the axle end plate that screws onto the brake backing plate and through the axle housing.

 

[BSG]

Its been a minute, but I thought there was a snap ring that held the backing plate then a 5 bolt beef bracket that sandwiched it to the axel. I'm dead set on keeping those baer brakes on the rear with the parking brake. I would stack my braking against any of these modern cars excluding tnhe ABS obviously. I mean this car stops doesn't nose dive etc. just swoops down fairly evenly till it stops! I will say it took 3 master cylinders and at least 3 purporting valves to get it there, but after finding the right setup I would hate to have to change it up! That may be the reason I changed to the green bearings to begin with? I cant remember that far back. It sure seems like there would be a way to bolt the backing plate and caliper bracket and go back to the tapered bearing setup tried and tru... Might have to put on my MacGyver hat and figure it out. The worst thing I can say about the green is unless you order a spare set to have on hand you are f****'d when one fails. If That were a tapered setup I would have made it to Vegas in time to autocross that thing. It took me about 10 minutes to figure I wasn't gonna get a part# cross-referenced that some kid at O'riellys or AutoZone could click and order up etc. If I go back green I will carry a spare in the trunk. I'll harbor freight a angle grinder cut the old one off and find someone with a press... All good reasons to go back to tapered! Merry Christmas

 

[moparleo]

So you never gave the important info. Is it a stock car doing stock driving, or ??
Ball and tapered bearings were available at the same time. Chevy used ball bearings , Mopar didn't. Must be a reason.

 

[Mopar Nut]

Its been a minute, but I thought there was a snap ring that held the backing plate then a 5 bolt beef bracket that sandwiched it to the axel.

Same as mine, it doesn’t seem like it would hold the axle in.

 

[BSG]

It gets driven to and from the valley for the spring and fall fling a couple times a year, 25 miles each way and around town etc. Another 100 miles or so at the very most a year. I know I should enjoy it more. I have a demanding job and several rentals and I'm a cheap ass so spare time to enjoy is rare. its just over stock motor and trans. Raced on a drag strip 2x's last weekend a first for me and it. Was looking forward to the autocross in Vegas for sure. When it broke it really crushed me. It always draws at the shows etc as it is super clean and detailed top to bottom. When things started to go sideways when the bearing was failing I really thought the gear was going out as it literally was the only used part on the car. I didn't even look at them cus I knew they had less that 500 miles on them since I put them in. To the point it wasn't abused and if the thing makes 300 to the rear wheel I'd be pleased and surprised. I built it to be a nice performing driver

 

[Mopar Nut]

That sucks.

 

[BSG]

Update for anybody that cares: As this is only 1 of 2 cars I have that I installed these in I was ordering 2 pairs first for obvious reasons and a spare set. I put a note to the Dr. diff folks that the first set smoked after 500 miles or less and they replied with:
Wilwood brakes are not designed correctly. Because the backing plate doubles as a wheel bearing retainer, the axles insert 1/8" deeper than stock. You must remove the differential center thrust block. Otherwise, the axles will preload the thrust block and destroy the wheel bearings. So that's interesting. That thrust block is definitely in there. That's pretty incredible Wilwood doesn't tell you that. I believe I stated earlier I have Baer brakes they are Wilwood after reviewing some pictures. Good info for the next man up!

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

Update for anybody that cares: As this is only 1 of 2 cars I have that I installed these in I was ordering 2 pairs first for obvious reasons and a spare set. I put a note to the Dr. diff folks that the first set smoked after 500 miles or less and they replied with:
Wilwood brakes are not designed correctly. Because the backing plate doubles as a wheel bearing retainer, the axles insert 1/8" deeper than stock. You must remove the differential center thrust block. Otherwise, the axles will preload the thrust block and destroy the wheel bearings. So that's interesting. That thrust block is definitely in there. That's pretty incredible Wilwood doesn't tell you that. I believe I stated earlier I have Baer brakes they are Wilwood after reviewing some pictures. Good info for the next man up!

I'm glad Cass told you that. Mystery solved. I am not a fan of Wilwood brakes anyway.

 

[BSG]

I'm glad Cass told you that. Mystery solved. I am not a fan of Wilwood brakes anyway.

besides the fact that they handlined in without a flex line I thought that they were light weight and I think you could change pads only with pliers and a screw driver. I doubt in my lifetime they will require it though. What drives your dislike?

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

besides the fact that they handlined in without a flex line I thought that they were light weight and I think you could change pads only with pliers and a screw driver. I doubt in my lifetime they will require it though. What drives your dislike?

I replaced the 73 and up style front discs on my 70 Duster with the Wilwood calipers and larger rotor. The brakes did not stop as well as the OE style brakes did. The first set of calipers had a leak around one of the pistons, so I returned it to Summit and they exchanged it. Was very expensive and very disappointing.

I just finished upgrading my 72 Challenger's brakes to the Dr Diff Stage 2 setup with aluminum master cylinder. It stops better than ever, and was well worth the effort. The guy I bought the car from had installed front disc brakes from a Mustang. I could stomp on the brakes and it would lock the rears up but the fronts never felt like they engaged. I bought an adjustable proportioning valve but did not need to install it.

 

[Dodgeboy]

I guess I'm the odd ball, I installed green bearings way back in 2000 and sofar so good I guess, once I found out they can't handle side loads I no longer do donuts...lol, never seen a track, street only

 

[SmudgeServices]

I installed a set of green bearing had to be 4 or 5 years ago but less than 500 miles ago. Long story short, the Lt rear went out while headed to Las Vegas on the Power Tour. Of course a couple of Mopar Guys pulled over to help and a Motor Trend producer as well. At the time I thought the center section went out and I figured I could swap it out after getting it towed home. While setting back the axels to pull the pumpkin I didn't notice the bearing being smoked so I ended up yanking the gear out and that was when i realized there was nothing wrong there and the bearing was falling apart. After a quick search I realized I wasn't gonna get a replacement and it would need pressing if I were to get so I jumped into one of my Chevy's to finish the trip. How can I tell If I have version 1 or 2 of the green bearing and what about the second version makes them better. To be honest, I wish I would have left the roller tapered bearings in. I can only assume the guy I paid to press them on over did it? I vaguely recall the telling me the amount of pressure he used. I even thought to myself that's overkill? I've read on the different forums that they run forever? However, 2 and from the valley a couple of times through the canyons in Malibu doesn't equate to forever. Maybe I got some cheap Chinese knock offs? If anyone can chime in on version 1 and 2 that would be great!

to respond to this original question, you can tell the difference for the newer version of Green bearings (MO400) from the old ones (RP.. something) because they're much beefier/heavier and the plate part that bolts on (circle with 5 bolt holes and the the straight edge) is separate from the bearing cylinder. on the older version the plate doesn't "snap on" the bearing cylinder into the groove, instead it's already connected.

I had the older ones on my 70 challenger and they would put out a nasty grinding noise when hitting hard/sharp turns fast. I hadn't realized I put on the old version ones until the symptoms appeared. I swapped for the newer MO400 and all my problems went away. I have nothing bad to say about them.

I attached pictures of the new version ones as i pulled out of the box. there is one pic holding the new bearing cylinder next to an axle rod with the old version green bearing pressed on. the perspective is weird but kinda shows the beefier size difference