Just how odd is this 70 Challenger?

[AMC PackRat]

A friend of mine owns a truly odd 70 Challenger. I've know all 3 people that have owned this car over the last 35 years or so. My best guess was that it was a dealer ordered example that was meant for a showroom to exhibit all the options for this car in 1970. It has 2 tags and so far a good build sheet hasn't been found but nobody's really looked hard for one yet. There was one in the back seat springs but it was literally confetti from the mice. Anyways, this is the way I think it was delivered from how I see it. It's a 70 non-RT Challenger with a 340 and column shift auto trans, red with a black interior. It does have an RT hood on it and had the rear bumble bee stripe on the back. Owner says the stripe is called out on the fender tag - not sure about the hood. It has 15" Rallye wheels, also. Now the fun stuff . . . The car has the power sun roof, AC, power windows, power steering, power brakes, rear defogger, standard dash with clock, and AM radio. I also think it originally had the "hounds-tooth" cloth seats - front seats have been replaced at one time. The way I see it the chances of another Challenger having this combination of parts is practically nil. Not to mention how few of these cars had sun roofs. The current owner doesn't really know what he wants to do with this at the moment - he's a lifetime Ford guy. It's midwest car rough and needs a full restoration but I drove it for about 20 miles yesterday. It drives like an old car but at least it drives. So, I'm just kind of wondering - does this car fit into the "magical" class of 1 of 1 cars that everybody seems to drool over nowadays? I'm trying to get this guy to at least stick it in a garage instead of wrapping it up in a tarp in his muddy back yard.

 

[DetMatt1]

It should have an A66 on the fender tag, 340 performance package got you most of the R/T goodies on a standard JH model Chally. It sounds well optioned and what would make it more than likely 1 of 1 is the power windows, sunroof with ac. All that being said a friend of mine that hangs out on these forums says it would probably be harder to find two Mopars that were exactly the same than it would be to find 1 of 1. All these cars were made in such limited quantities and had an almost unlimited list of options available. I think there were around 3,300 '70 340 automatic cars built.

 

[jeff968]

Pretty cool Challenger. I've owned 2 A66 340 Challengers. The sunroof is the rarest of the listed options. There is a guy that runs a sunroof registry and you should start with him to find out of anything remotely similar exists. He has a website.

 

[AMC PackRat]

Yeah, I was reading the thread here about the sun roof cars. I researched that years ago when I wanted to buy the car from the previous owner but the car was overpriced in my opinion. I never did get any reliable hard numbers on how many were made - is that info out there now? I'll probably register the car over there when I get some actual info on it. I just looked it over real quick and took it for a drive yesterday. Next time I'll get pics of the car, Vin, data plates, etc. It has a 6 way adjustable seat, too, but I'm not sure if that's original (probably is though). I also wonder how many had a 340 with the auto on the column?

 

[jeff968]

It has a 6 way adjustable seat, too, but I'm not sure if that's original (probably is though). I also wonder how many had a 340 with the auto on the column?

The 6 way seat is option code C62 and that should appear on the fender tag if the seat was original to the car. No one has the detailed stats you are looks for. Chrysler only kept numbers on how many 340 cars were produced (JH23H0) in 1970 but they didn't break it out by tranny and shifter type. The most people can do is collect data on what they've seen but that represents just a small sample of what was actually made.

 

[AMC PackRat]

Kinda thought they wouldn't have a number for column shift 340s but I doubt if there were many. Thanks for the seat code.

 

[DetMatt1]

6,933 340 Challengers in '70, 343 were 3 spd manual, 2,819 were 4spds and 3,771 were automatics. How it breaks down from there can only be speculation. Very few sunroof cars though...

 

[RUNCHARGER]

That's a really rare and desirable combination i believe. Sunroof isn't my cup of tea but it would set off alarm bells for lots of other folks. That car would deserve a proper by the numbers restoration.

Sheldon

 

[AMC PackRat]

When I researched this before I thought I only came up with about 53 sunroof cars for 70 Challengers but don't remember where I read that. I've watched this car sit and rot for over 35 years now. The previous owner left it in a very leaky garage and never drove it. He thought it was worth a million bucks even though it was sitting there rotting with 4 flat tires. The guy that owns it now has gotten it mechanically drive-able but he keeps it in his muddy back yard covered in tarps. A full on restoration would require a lot of rust repair and body panels. More than this guy will ever do. I've seen guys restore Mopars in a lot worse shape, though.

 

[moparleo]

There's an old saying that " beauty (or value) is in the eyes of the be holder. Ask that question to a Ford or Chevy lover or anyone else that is not interested in Mopars and they wouldn't care at all what kind of options it has. Like you said, one owner thought it was worth a million bucks and you said that when you were interested in buying it that it was overpriced in "your opinion". So there you go.. Ask a dozen people what they think and you will get a dozen different answers.

 

[AMC PackRat]

You're right about that, Leo. The one owner thought it must be worth a million bucks because people kept coming over just to see it. He couldn't even change a spark plug if he had to and the car was a wedding gift from his father in law but he hung on to it for about 30 years. I asked him once or twice a year what he wanted for it and he would never give me a price so I never made an offer. The guy that owns it now finally threw a number at him and he took it (too much but at least he got it out of the leaky garage and away from an owner who should only be driving rusty Datsuns anyway lol).

Anyways, I'm going to look at it a little closer today and maybe take some pics of the tags and condition. Then, I'm going to try and decode it for him to see if it's what all I think it is. Maybe some of the experts here can give an opinion on whether or not this car deserves a full on resto or not. Maybe I'll post the pics here if I can figure out how to do that. Trust me - it's not a pretty car . . .

Just wondering - does anybody have a real number on how many 70 Challengers had the sunroof (RTs and base models) or is that kind of info the stuff you have to pay "experts" for? I haven't been able to find any production figures for any of the Mopar sunroof cars anywhere yet.

 

[DetMatt1]

The guy to talk to about the sunroof cars is on this sight, I believe he goes by SDweatherman.

 

[AMC PackRat]

Yeah, I read his stuff here. They say he has a web site but all I found was a facebook page. Maybe I'll just pm him and ask if he knows.

 

[sdweatherman]

AMC PackRat sent me a PM - around 114 JH23 base Challengers and 82 Challenger R/Ts were outfitted with the power sunroof and shipped to the USA marketplace. Probably several more were shipped off to Canada and International destinations - those Europeans really liked sunroofs in their cars in the 60s and 70s.

There are at least 3 known power sunroof T/As - which are included in the JH23 numbers (114).

Here are all of the 1970 sunroof Challengers that I have run across so far:
http://www.blackhillsmopars.org/files/pdf/Sunroof1970DodgeChallengers.pdf

Not a website per se - but a page on our club website that I use to post all the sunroof car brochures. A full blown Early Mopar Sunroof Car website is in the works for this winter.

Thanks,
Scott.

 

[340challconvert]

Sounds like a cool A-66 Challenger with a sun roof, a very rare option in itself
Power windows and factory air makes it an even more unique combination
Sounds like an early A66 Challenger (roughly August through October)
The early A66 package included the bulge hood, HD RT suspension, 15 in wheels, a collapse spare and bumble bee stripe on the rump.
It should also have the bumble bee decals in the rear quarter windows and no wheel well moldings.
A few very early 340 Challengers came with the flat hood, but the A66 package evolved early to get the RT hood. I believe the hoods were not coded on the tag because it was a component of the A66 Package. It is not on my A66 vert.
The grill should be argent and not black, but many were painted by owners over the years incorrectly.
The package changed in late October-early November and the 15" wheels and spare became optional.

The car sounds like it is worth pursuing, and someone willing and able to take on the work and expense.
Cool Car- Good luck with whatever choice you make!

 

[AMC PackRat]

View attachment 28776 View attachment 28777

View attachment 28777 Here's some pics of the car. I had a camera mess-up and the vin and tag pics got lost - I'll have to get them later. At least he stuck it in the garage for now.

Well that screwed up - I lost the 2 pics of the front of the car and the vin and data tag.

 

[AMC PackRat]

Thanks for the info on production, SC. Does anybody know any way to get a build date on this without the build sheet or other paperwork? Also, is there a way to manually open the sunroof - seems like the motor is locked up or it's jammed. There's a guy on eBay selling a $5 tool for this for . . . . wait for it . . . . $575 !!! I think a threaded rod and a ratchet setup would probably do the same thing. LOL Mopar guys . . .

Oh yeah - the owner showed me a nice build sheet he pulled out of the passenger seat. He said it's only 3 cars off from his and it's for an RT 440 4 speed car - with a sunroof. What are the chances of that? lol This originally had cloth houndstooth buckets.

 

[DetMatt1]

Thanks for the info on production, SC. Does anybody know any way to get a build date on this without the build sheet or other paperwork? Also, is there a way to manually open the sunroof - seems like the motor is locked up or it's jammed. There's a guy on eBay selling a $5 tool for this for . . . . wait for it . . . . $575 !!! I think a threaded rod and a ratchet setup would probably do the same thing. LOL Mopar guys . . .

Oh yeah - the owner showed me a nice build sheet he pulled out of the passenger seat. He said it's only 3 cars off from his and it's for an RT 440 4 speed car - with a sunroof. What are the chances of that? lol This originally had cloth houndstooth buckets.

SDweatherman will like to here about the extra sheet for another sunroof car!
Build date is on the fender tag as well.

 

[DetMatt1]

Does the hood have emblems or decals for the engine call-out?

 

[AMC PackRat]

Neither - it's been repainted. Doesn't have holes for the emblems, though.