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Rear Seal Leak

Ricks72Chlgr440

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Just installed a rebuilt 440 with stroker kit and the rear main seal is leaking. I really would prefer (ugh) not to pull the engine out again so is it possible to pull the pan, windage tray, and remove the seal retainer while the engine is in the car?
 

pschlosser

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I'm gonna try to stay on-topic, which is: "can the rear seal be replaced without pulling the engine." But I may digress into "how to replace the 440 rear engine seal properly." There are many youtube videos, and plenty of advice on the net for this latter topic, so I will try to stay focused.

Yes, it can be replaced without removing the engine (entirely), but it will take 4 or more times longer, and you won't be able to test the seal like you could with the engine out of the car.

Back in the 1980s, I got so good at swapping engines in e-bodies, I could do it in a day. In fact, I think my record was 4-hours to remove and install a 440 engine in a 1970 Barracuda and taking it for a test ride. This was without a lift, but using an engine hoist, floor jack and jack stands.

There are many, many threads of discussion talking about the rear main seal on the 440 on this site and others. It is possibly among the most-common of topics, because sadly, it's a common problem.

In my opinion, if you want to fix this once, and only one last time, pull the engine.

Dropping the crank in the car is pretty challenging, and will require an engine hoist, and partially disconnecting the engine, any way you slice it.

If you pull the engine completely out, it may take you a full day (your first time) but the install will be a fraction of that time, because you'll already know your way around. Often, the biggest time consumers are loosening frozen bolts that had never been loosened since the car rolled off the assembly line. If your engine is a recent install, you won't have to deal with frozen/broken/stripped fasteners.

Once the seal is replaced, you can test the seal by tilting the engine (on the hoist) so the rear of the engine points downward. Adding enough oil so the seal is completely submerged, and leaving it sit like this for a day (or even two) should show a leak, if it's going to leak, while the engine is still out. If it leaks, you can resolve without the need to pull the engine anew.
 

Chryco Psycho

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It can be done in car , the upper seal can be carefully slid around the crank out & in again
 

Ricks72Chlgr440

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Since this is a new build, I don't believe the upper part of the seal is the culprit, but the lower. Seems like if I could get the pan/windage tray off while the engine is still installed it would be possible. The video I watched showed a guy with a 440 that needed to shave off .040 from the seal retainer before the seal would contact the crank. Seems unbelievable that this would be needed. He put some grease on the area where the seal was supposed to ride and he would shave .005 at a time from the retainer until the seal made contact. That is what I'm thinking of doing to resolve my problem too. My engine builder used the standard Felpro gaskets so assuming he used the seals from that kit. Again, new engine with 250 miles so seals should still be good.
 

Chryco Psycho

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Typically I have found the side seals for the retainer to be the source of the leak not the seal , Mancini sells a better retainer plate for the seal .
 

JDMopar

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Typically I have found the side seals for the retainer to be the source of the leak not the seal , Mancini sells a better retainer plate for the seal .
I agree. Get the billet retainer plate and a new seal, for good measure. Seal it up good and let the sealer cure a day before you fire it back up. Getting the upper seal in will be the hardest part, whether you leave the engine in the car or remove it. It is very do-able, just harder to do with the crank in place. Good luck to you.
 

Whordell

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Great videos on exactly my issue. Thanks for sharing!
I’ll be honest with ya The Fastfish retainer is better than the Mancini as it doesn’t utilize side seals and has beveled edges but that’s not your problem according to your description. I had my engine out of my car and confirmed my leak was in between seal and the block retainer, the seal had good contact all around the crank and thats what you need to confirm. I used a NOS Rope seal and the leak quit for about 1,000 miles and then it started leaking again. I think you need to pull the engine part, pull the crank and add some rtv like the right stuff black in the block retainer and put your seal back in the retainer. There’s a few posts out there and pics of people doing this and it fixed the problem. Some people never add RTV there and have zero problems but lucky me my engine builder didn’t and that’s where it’s leaking at. I’m going to have to pull the engine and crank to fix it .
 

MoparCarGuy

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@Whordell Is THIS the correct retainer and seal from Fast Fish?
Fast Fish's info is a bit confusing. At first, I thought it was a one-piece rear main seal which would require removing the crank but it actually says,

"This retainer and seal is a popular seller. This retainer and seal package is an excellent fix for those customers that have had continuous leaks with traditional 2 piece seals. The retainer has been machined and will clear engine block that incorporate main studs. This retainer and seal package fits all big block Mopar engines. This retainer and seal can be successfully installed in the vehicle without removing engine or transmission.

I also see they have a one-piece Viton seal but I think that one does require pulling the crankshaft to install it.
 
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Xcudame

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It's funny. I've never installed a rear seal until after installing the crankshaft and checking the crankshaft main and end play clearances. It's so easy to rotate and "suck" in the rear upper seal using a little STP and the crankshaft. And RTV, loctite or permatex (some kind of sticky sealer that gets hard) is a different must for between the upper and lower seal (just a dab on each parting line) and on the ends and sides of the aluminum rear main seal.

If it's only the aluminum rear main seal leaking, it can be fixed with only removing the oil pan.

Rick, I believe you have your issue solved. Let us know the outcome. 👍
 

Whordell

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@Whordell Is THIS the correct retainer and seal from Fast Fish?
Fast Fish's info is a bit confusing. At first, I thought it was a one-piece rear main seal which would require removing the crank but it actually says,

"This retainer and seal is a popular seller. This retainer and seal package is an excellent fix for those customers that have had continuous leaks with traditional 2 piece seals. The retainer has been machined and will clear engine block that incorporate main studs. This retainer and seal package fits all big block Mopar engines. This retainer and seal can be successfully installed in the vehicle without removing engine or transmission.

I also see they have a one-piece Viton seal but I think that one does require pulling the crankshaft to install it.
Couldn’t get THIS to pull up. You can install the 1 piece by loosening the main caps and dropping the crank a bit but I really don’t like their seal. It’s not like the Viton, it’s more pliable, I’d rather use the 2 piece Viton with the Fast Fish retainer personally. Some people love the fast fish seal but like I mentioned I think the OP,s problem may be between the seal block retainer.
 
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