SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!

[ramenth]

Hi Ramenth,

Call me Robert. Everyone else does.

That is our feeling too. Half the fun is driving the car, the other half is working on it. It might be as expensive as professional therapy restoring them, but I can guarantee, it is a lot more FUN!

I've had the Sport Satellite since I was 16. I have a lot of memories wrapped up in that car. In my own independent research it's just unique enough of a part of Chrysler history that taking it concourse is the only way to go with it. It'll never be "sought after," but it shows that Chrysler made some pretty unique cars.

I'd love to see pics of your cars, especially the work a long the way! This way everyone gets to enjoy the trials and tribulations as to what goes into a restoration. Heck, with Dave posting so many pics and techniques from him doing his cars, I know I have picked up countless bits of information as to how a car should be correctly restored to OE specs and the way applications were done to achieve a certain look!

If you run your cursor over the cars in my sig some of them will highlight. It'll take you to the links on Joey's other sites where the build threads are, as well as some of the stories behind them. Nothing on the Sport, yet, as I haven't begun the process, but I'm hoping it's not that far away.

Being a former restorer myself I understand the idea of documenting the process and maybe sharing some techniques. Pop and I did a restoration on a '57 Coronet that had sat in the barn for 30+ years. That's a car that deserved the kind of restoration Dave is showing in this thread. Unfortunately, I couldn't get the owner to understand that. She wanted it "freshened up," not completely restored. Guess I can understand that. It went back in the barn when it was done. Last I heard of it, it was up for sale.

Like a '57 Bel Air convertible I did. The owner wasn't willing to go full boogy concourse on that, either, though I would have liked to. As it is, he drives it in parades and shows it at one local show. It suits him just fine being a "correct driver."

 

[ECS]

Well, we do drive our cars..........

Even more important than the appearance is the functionality of the Restoration. These cars could be driven anywhere with no issues. They run and operate like "New" cars because they are new cars. Here are a couple of video sound clips we did on my Challenger and Cuda (a few days ago) to showcase the new Factory Exhaust line we manufacture. I'll have the comparison videos of our Factory Exact Systems, to accompany these, in a couple of weeks! Tom Barcroft is doing the narrating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=731E0GoXa6k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2DXZceKx-o

 

[ramenth]

Even more important than the appearance is the functionality of the Restoration. These cars could be driven anywhere with no issues. They run and operate like "New" cars because they are new cars.

The way it should be. No sense in a restoration the only looks good.

 

[a68postcar]

and i full on agree......nothin worse than a beautifl car broke dick on the side of the highway. and i'm happy to read that you guys drive 'em too. i firmly believe that the only way to get the bugs out of 'em, you have to "drive" 'em out. by the way, i'm Lenny.

 

[resq302]

Like I said, the only time they are trailered is if we have a strict point concours style judging show to go to OR it is a really long distance show where the bias ply tires would make the trip an absolute hazard! They are fine for going in straight lines and doing burn outs but thats about it! lol

 

[ECS]

Here are as series of photos that illustrate the measures we had to take in order to match the Factory Undercoat patterns. I replaced the original Gas Tank with an NOS unit and had the challenge of matching its old undercoat patterns. Just for this one particular area, three methods were used to obtain the desired results. The undercoat mixture had to be applied at varying viscosity depending on the method we were using. Again, the trick to ANY procedure is to make it appear as if it was done by the Factory. Too many OE vehicles exhibit manipulated patterns that contradict the natural physics of an Assembly Line appearance. You have to keep close tabs on where you are at in the process or the appearances of sprayed materials will look phoney!

Original Gas Tank and Undercoat Pattern

Original Gas Tank and Undercoat Pattern

NOS Gas Tank

Underside W/O Gas tank installed

NOS Tank in place, ready for Undercoat coverage

Before & After Comparison

Before & After Comparison - Notice "wave" in Undercoat pattern due to pressurized spray

Gas Tank & Undercoat completed

 

[resq302]

Dave,

Was the old tank badly rusted? Why did you chose to replace it with an NOS vs. restoring the old tank?

 

[ECS]

Dave,

Was the old tank badly rusted? Why did you chose to replace it with an NOS vs. restoring the old tank?

There was some surface rust in a few spots on the galvanizing and it ate into the metal surface. There was no way to make it look new again so when I found that NOS tank, I jumped at the chance to buy it. The condition of the NOS tank was pristine and provided a new look for that particular part of the restoration.

 

[Bill]

I purchase a 73 and a 74 Challenger last year and they both had all the parts in boxes. Photos like this help me out tremendously as I have never really restored a car to this magnitude before.
Thank you!

Here are a few photos of the "GROUND UP" 1970 Challenger Restoration. There we many challenges in making this vehicle look Assembly Line New again but it did not have the same level difficulty as restoring the 1970 Valiant Survivor. The final results of the two cars were the same but the processes to get them there were quite a bit different.

 

[ECS]

Photos like this help me out tremendously as I have never really restored a car to this magnitude before.
Thank you!

Thank you for your comment! I have a few vehicles that we have restored to this level. The great part was being involved with everyone of them and assisting with the work. Steve Been and I restored the Cuda in 2004 and Dave Stuart & Tom Barcroft got involved (late) with the Challenger Restoration in 2007. Also included in the group of photos below is my 1970 Mustang. I did that vehicle by myself in 1999 prior to meeting and working with the other Guys.

 

[ECS]

I feel your explanation of the Survivor VS. Ground Up Restored are pretty clear........Enjoyable read

Here are a few additional photos of the "Ground Up" Restoration we did on the 1970 Cuda. This vehicle had been refurbished before I purchased it and had it to be completely disassembled and redone to bring it back to an original condition.

 

[a68postcar]

son-of-a-b$%#*, sweetheart i'm in love with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(the car that is).

 

[ECS]

Here are a few comparisons of the various Decals that we manufacture to match the Factory originals for these Chrysler cars.

Before

After

ECS Reproduction VIN Decals

ECS Reproduction - New Vehicle Decal Assortment

 

[ECS]

Here are a few additional pictures showing the condition of the 10,600 mile Valiant prior its the Restoration. Keep in mind that no sandblasting was done anywhere on the car to remove the rust! All oxidation was (patiently) removed with chemicals and tons of elbow grease.

 

[rustycuda]

i have a13880 mile 74 cuda. i am contantly asked what constitutes a true survivor. i have only changed 4 tires (last summer ) after the date coded 1973 f-70s developed a bubble. so in total i have changed tires a themostat and now a heater core. this is a survivor to me. i believe when we attemp to copy the original markings etc. it is cool but not a true survivor

 

[ECS]

i have a13880 mile 74 cuda. i am contantly asked what constitutes a true survivor. i have only changed 4 tires (last summer ) after the date coded 1973 f-70s developed a bubble. so in total i have changed tires a themostat and now a heater core. this is a survivor to me. i believe when we attemp to copy the original markings etc. it is cool but not a true survivor

Who makes the rules or defines the boundaries of what makes a car a "true survivor"? Some people say that ANY changes to an original vehicle ruins it's "true survivor" status. When changes are made that alter the Factory originality, the car is no longer considered a "true survivor".

 

[AZkcar135]

I think it answers the question fairly simply in the name itself. "Survivor" It survived the test of time. Not brought back to what it once was.....

 

[ECS]

.......brought back to what it once was.....

Bringing a car back to what it originally was is considered a RESTORATION. This thread is intended to show the differences that are necessary to RESTORE a Survivor type car versus a Ground Up type restoration project. No one is trying to claim, express, hint or say that you can make a car a Survivor again. That would be an impossibility! The only way to obtain a Survivor is to buy a new Car and never alter it's original status. You can't Restore a car to be a Survivor. You can only Restore a car to represent what it looked like when it was new.

 

[AZkcar135]

Bringing a car back to what it originally was is considered a RESTORATION. This thread is intended to show the differences that are necessary to RESTORE a Survivor type car versus a Ground Up type restoration project. No one is trying to claim, express, hint or say that you can make a car a Survivor again. That would be an impossibility! The only way to obtain a Survivor is to buy a new Car and never alter it's original status. You can't Restore a car to be a Survivor. You can only Restore a car to represent what it looked like when it was new.

I agree totally, I must have miss read what you're trying to convey.....

 

[ECS]

Here are a few photos of the "NEW" ECS Factory Exact Exhaust System that we just replaced on the Challenger project.