swapping 440 six pack

[734406Pack]

So after much work I finally acquired the 440 six pack my old man has been storing in his garage for the past 20 years lol. it is modded and I have some specs on it. looking to see what kind of power you guys may think it might be making. I will be swapping out the 340 out for this bad boy

its been bored 4.350 .30 over
11.5:1 comp ratio
Cam dynamics 7000+ cheater cam with .467/.483 lift duration is 352/380
as for the heads he said the machine guy turned them into stage 3 heads. don't know what that means and I can't find specs on stage 3 heads.
Six pack carbs edelbrock manifold.

I want to get aluminum heads but wish I knew the exact cc's of the heads on the motor atm. and let me know head recommendation's. I was reading up on stealth heads but seeing a lot of mixed reviews.


thanks for the input guys.

 

[js29]

welcome to the forum! i would call Summit and ask there tec department what they would recommend. with compression that high you want aluminum heads, especially if you are going to run pump gas.

 

[DetMatt1]

Welcome to the site from the Motor City! What's it going in? Got any pics?

 

[734406Pack]

Welcome to the site from the Motor City! What's it going in? Got any pics?

 

[js29]

if you wright down the casting #s from the heads the tec people should be able to tell what you have for original c c combustion chambers, and ya what are you putting this in.

 

[734406Pack]

if you wright down the casting #s from the heads the tec people should be able to tell what you have for original c c combustion chambers, and ya what are you putting this in.

73 challenger

 

[moparleo]

First I would decide what I realistically was going to do with it. Daily driver, weekend cruiser, race car ? Stick or automatic ? To use on the street the compression needs to go down at least a couple of points. Change to a current cam ,lifter and spring set. A lot has improved in the last few years. New oil pump, water pump, fuel pump. Rear main seal upgrade, carbs rebuilt. Check rings, bores. Upgrade heads if you want, with the usual cc, 3 angle VJ , port match... Have the engine broken in and tuned on a dyno before you install it. Or just buy some heads, put it in your car and cross your fingers.

 

[734406Pack]

First I would decide what I realistically was going to do with it. Daily driver, weekend cruiser, race car ? Stick or automatic ? To use on the street the compression needs to go down at least a couple of points. Change to a current cam ,lifter and spring set. A lot has improved in the last few years. New oil pump, water pump, fuel pump. Rear main seal upgrade, carbs rebuilt. Check rings, bores. Upgrade heads if you want, with the usual cc, 3 angle VJ , port match... Have the engine broken in and tuned on a dyno before you install it. Or just buy some heads, put it in your car and cross your fingers.

well carbs are NOS never been used. engine has 0 hours on it. I am going to go through it and replace the gaskets and all just cause its been sitting for all those years. as for the cam I am going to keep the cheater cam read really good review on that 7000+ cam its going to be a weekend car. its a 4 speed manual. I am curious as to how much hp this should be putting out the way it is. and realistically I am just going to drop it in as in, after I replace a few things. further along the road I want to port and polish aluminum heads. if I make 500 on motor I am good. lol

 

[challenger6pak]

With stock vacuum outer carbs the car will probably fall on it's face off the line. You will have some tuning to do. The aluminum heads will help on the street with the 11:1 ratio.

 

[734406Pack]

Only thing stock on this car are the heads lol which is what I am looking into atm. Probably going to go with Indy heads.

 

[734406Pack]

I was reading the specs of stock heads 906 They have the 2.08" intake valves and 1.74" exhaust valves and
915 are 1.60" on the standard head 2.08 intake

The heads on my engine are 2.14 and 1.81.. does that mean the heads have been ported already? sorry if its a dumb question just curious.

 

[DetMatt1]

Not necessarily, bigger valves could have been installed but no port work. So are you saying you have 915s or 906s?

 

[734406Pack]

It has to be one of those they are steel heads

 

[DetMatt1]

Well they could be 346s, 452s, 516s, 250s etc.. 915s and 516s are closed chamber while the others I have listed are open. I didn't even list any of the Max wedge heads.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Stealth are more of a stock replacement head but are a good upgrade , Super Stealth will make a lot more power & are probably better suited to you engine or Indy EZ heads

 

[734406Pack]

sorry for any dumb questions I may ask I am learning I swear lol.


how aggressive is this cam? Duration @ .050" lift: 250/256 (int/exh)
Valve lift: .519/.524 (int/exh)


I have been breaking my brain on trying to understand cam specs. and matching the rockers to the cam 1.5/1.6 etc.. so much more different coming into the old school world. I remember on my 01 trans am I had a 239/242 603/609 cam and it sounded/performed aggressive as hell and I loved it. and I just want the same for the challenger. I don't get the lower lift.. haven't really seen a mopar cam with higher lift then 500's.


I don't really want to spend a lot of money on rockers as I still need to do some other work like painting and some other thing that does not involve the motor. but I definitely need to swap out that stock eliminator cam in it.


Thanks for the help.

 

[DetMatt1]

Those are motor home heads from 1973 and came stock with 2.08 1.74 valves just like the rest of the stock heads of the day. They may have had extra cooling passages if there's any difference at all from 346 castings which would have been found in the passenger cars that same year.
I'm not a cam expert and personally I would call someone who is in addition to listening to the input of the fine folks that will chime in here.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

You have a nymber of choices with no clear winner
4 cam types ,
1- Hyd flat tappet , you will need special oil with high ZDDP content , no adjustment needed
2- Solid flat tappet , special high ZDDP oil again , you can get close to roller profiles but you need adjustable rockers .
3- Hyd roller , no special oil , quicker ramp speeds but limited by spring valve pressure , with a very high spring pressure for fast ramp cams the lifters may collapse & you need a special fuel pump pushrod if using a mechanical pump & a cam button to stop cam walk
4- Solid roller , no special oil , unlimited profiles , may starve the lifter rollers for oil if idled in traffic , I believe their are special street lifter with oiling provisions for street use . Cost is high . You will need adjsutable rockers , special fuel pump pushrod & cam button .
Basically duration is what makes a cam , lift is free , with duration you have centerline , overlap & duration to consider , the overlap really controls the RPM where the cam will work , the more both valves are open at the same time the higher the rpm to make the cam efficient , the centerline controls where the valve are in relation to the piston , the centerline spec is used to control overlap though so by moving the center line of each lobe apart you reduce overlap , so a 108-110 * centerline is higher RPM , 112 is more a street grind & 114* more RV low end torwue cam . the total duration also affect the RPM where the cam will work best , so a typical street grind will be in the 112* CL with 230-245* duration & may 60-70 * of overlap .
I use a lot of Lunati VooDoo cams , short duration , decent vacuum good street manners but with high lift & wide power band , I also choose a lot of custom grind solid cams where you can get around 250* duration @.050 but with .570 range for lift using 1.5 rockers & you can change CL to alter the rpm band where the cam will work best .
Most cam companies have a techline you can call & discuss your needs with them so they can supply a great cam for your application

 

[734406Pack]

You have a nymber of choices with no clear winner
4 cam types ,
1- Hyd flat tappet , you will need special oil with high ZDDP content , no adjustment needed
2- Solid flat tappet , special high ZDDP oil again , you can get close to roller profiles but you need adjustable rockers .
3- Hyd roller , no special oil , quicker ramp speeds but limited by spring valve pressure , with a very high spring pressure for fast ramp cams the lifters may collapse & you need a special fuel pump pushrod if using a mechanical pump & a cam button to stop cam walk
4- Solid roller , no special oil , unlimited profiles , may starve the lifter rollers for oil if idled in traffic , I believe their are special street lifter with oiling provisions for street use . Cost is high . You will need adjsutable rockers , special fuel pump pushrod & cam button .
Basically duration is what makes a cam , lift is free , with duration you have centerline , overlap & duration to consider , the overlap really controls the RPM where the cam will work , the more both valves are open at the same time the higher the rpm to make the cam efficient , the centerline controls where the valve are in relation to the piston , the centerline spec is used to control overlap though , so a 108-110 * centerline is higher RPM , 112 is more a street grind & 114* more RV low end torwue cam . the total duration also affect the RPM where the cam will work best , so a typical street grind will be in the 112* CL with 230-245* duration & may 60-70 * of overlap .
I use a lot of Lunati VooDoo cams , short duration , decent vacuum good street manners but with high lift & wide power band , I also choose a lot of custom grind solid cams where you can get around 250* duration @.050 but with .570 range for lift using 1.5 rockers & you can change CL to alter the rpm band where the cam will work best .
Most cam companies have a techline you can call & discuss your needs with them so they can supply a great cam for your application

wow that really helped a lot.. right to the point. these other guides online blabber and confuse me.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Every part of the lobe is critical to the way the engine runs , the difference between advertised duration & duration @.050 can be used to compare ramp speed too so so if you have a 280 * advertised & 240 @ .050 the ramp is faster than a can with 280 ad & 225*@ .050
To me you want faster ramp speeds as the sooner & longer the valve is open wide the better while the overall duration can be similar allowing for better flow with similar idle .
SO even comparing similar cams from different manufacturers the cam may perform completely differently even using similar duration specs so 2 cams with 280* ad duration are not the same animal which is why I prefer some companies over others .
I am glad this is helping !