Tire to fender clearance - how close is too close?

[Spyder]

How much tire to fender clearance do you need for the rears? I plan to order new tires in the next day or two and I love the look and stance of my car currently, but the passenger side rear is uncomfortably close to the fender. I can fit my fingers in the gap, barely, but can't move them.

The rub marks on the tire are from the old fender that was crumpled in a bit, they haven't rubbed since the bodywork and paint was done but I suspect they would if I ran low on air on that side. Drivers side has a little more clearance and I can pass my fingers through, while touching both tire and fender, they'll still pass through.

These are 275 60R15. Do I need to go down to 255 60R15?

 

[pschlosser]

I would say 1/2 inch is the minimum on the front and rear. In the front, there is plenty of room in the wheel well for it to travel upward, so there, it is the up movement while making a turn that can be an issue, and 1/2-inch at rest turning fully left an right has proven reasonable in my experience.

Regarding the back, very much the same. 1/2-inch clearance. You maybe can push it to 3/8-inch. 1/4-inch runs the risk of rubbing at high speeds and causing a blow out. The AAR and T/A had (most of them, I think) "rolled" fenders, wherein the lip shown in your pictures was brutally rolled up and inward at the factory by using a length of 2-inch pipe (more or less) Of course, this was done only to the front fenders, if I recall correctly. But I've seen others doing it to their rears more than once.

Over the years, I've pushed my luck. I would run wide tires on 14 x 5 steel wheels. This causes the tire to balloon outward at the sidewall. On a long turning curve at high speed, as the side G-forces move the axle and wheel outward (while the tread stays put, more or less) and the car undulates up and down you can experience some side-wall rubbing. I recall hearing it a number of times. I've never had a blow out occur, but the paint at the top of the inner wheel well lip was buffed off down to shiny metal.

In your pictures, especially those depicting your hand, I think I see evidence of rubbing on the sidewall of the tire. So you're already at the threshold. If you want to keep those tires and want more clearance, you may need to roll the lip upward, as described by the factory procedure above.

Inspect how much space you have from the inner side wall to the leaf springs. If you have, for example, a full-inch in there, in theory you could change to a lesser offset wheel without the need to roll the lips.

Rolled lips don't show, but your paint job looks beautiful, and there is a risk of cracking the paint at or near the lip where is DOES show.

Once when servicing the leaf springs, I lowered the car to see how far down (or wheels up, as the case may be) things go, before the pinion snubber kicks in. It was educational, and in my case, there was ballooned-sidewall contact.

 

[Xcudame]

If your finger tips are like mine and you can put them all along the wheel lip and tire like shown in your first photo, you're good to go. You have discovered one thing I like to mention is that our cars can have a lot of variance from side to side. I've seen up to 1/2"!

 

[HPP]

How much tire to fender clearance do you need for the rears? I plan to order new tires in the next day or two and I love the look and stance of my car currently, but the passenger side rear is uncomfortably close to the fender. I can fit my fingers in the gap, barely, but can't move them.

The rub marks on the tire are from the old fender that was crumpled in a bit, they haven't rubbed since the bodywork and paint was done but I suspect they would if I ran low on air on that side. Drivers side has a little more clearance and I can pass my fingers through, while touching both tire and fender, they'll still pass through.

These are 275 60R15. Do I need to go down to 255 60R15?

1/2 inch is fine, heck, I've run this down to a 1/4 inch in some places, IF you can avoid contact of the widest part of the tire and the narrowest part of the opening. Yours looks close enough it may cut the tire, but camera angles can be deceiving. I would check how far into the well that tire could possibly go and measure that against the fender lip to determine if it is livable. Try jacking up the rear to see how far you can compress it or get a few large friends to sit in the backseat to do the same.

IMO, you need a different backspace wheel. There is no reason why a 275 should be even close to contacting the fender lip on an E body. I've running a tire that is a full 12" tread width with a 13" section width with no contact issues, but wheel position is key to doing that. I seem to recall that the XV guys would routinely put 335 tires on the rear of Challengers, but again, wheel position is everything.

 

[Spyder]

1/2 inch is fine, heck, I've run this down to a 1/4 inch in some places, IF you can avoid contact of the widest part of the tire and the narrowest part of the opening. Yours looks close enough it may cut the tire, but camera angles can be deceiving. I would check how far into the well that tire could possibly go and measure that against the fender lip to determine if it is livable. Try jacking up the rear to see how far you can compress it or get a few large friends to sit in the backseat to do the same.

IMO, you need a different backspace wheel. There is no reason why a 275 should be even close to contacting the fender lip on an E body. I've running a tire that is a full 12" tread width with a 13" section width with no contact issues, but wheel position is key to doing that. I seem to recall that the XV guys would routinely put 335 tires on the rear of Challengers, but again, wheel position is everything.

Backspacing won't help, it's almost as close against the leaf spring on the inside too. The 275s fit, and I've got a thousand or so miles on these tires just like this. It just makes me nervous and I don't know if it's unecessarily so. Lots of people saying it's fine, but I'd rather run 255s than rip off a fender on a 2 year old paint job. Plus, I think going from a 28 to a 27" tire will help my 60 foot times a bit with my current setup.

I would say 1/2 inch is the minimum on the front and rear. In the front, there is plenty of room in the wheel well for it to travel upward, so there, it is the up movement while making a turn that can be an issue, and 1/2-inch at rest turning fully left an right has proven reasonable in my experience.

Regarding the back, very much the same. 1/2-inch clearance. You maybe can push it to 3/8-inch. 1/4-inch runs the risk of rubbing at high speeds and causing a blow out. The AAR and T/A had (most of them, I think) "rolled" fenders, wherein the lip shown in your pictures was brutally rolled up and inward at the factory by using a length of 2-inch pipe (more or less) Of course, this was done only to the front fenders, if I recall correctly. But I've seen others doing it to their rears more than once.

Over the years, I've pushed my luck. I would run wide tires on 14 x 5 steel wheels. This causes the tire to balloon outward at the sidewall. On a long turning curve at high speed, as the side G-forces move the axle and wheel outward (while the tread stays put, more or less) and the car undulates up and down you can experience some side-wall rubbing. I recall hearing it a number of times. I've never had a blow out occur, but the paint at the top of the inner wheel well lip was buffed off down to shiny metal.

In your pictures, especially those depicting your hand, I think I see evidence of rubbing on the sidewall of the tire. So you're already at the threshold. If you want to keep those tires and want more clearance, you may need to roll the lip upward, as described by the factory procedure above.

Inspect how much space you have from the inner side wall to the leaf springs. If you have, for example, a full-inch in there, in theory you could change to a lesser offset wheel without the need to roll the lips.

Rolled lips don't show, but your paint job looks beautiful, and there is a risk of cracking the paint at or near the lip where is DOES show.

Once when servicing the leaf springs, I lowered the car to see how far down (or wheels up, as the case may be) things go, before the pinion snubber kicks in. It was educational, and in my case, there was ballooned-sidewall contact.

My fronts are all good, I'm going to stick with the 235 60 15's there. It rides well and drives well and looks right. That rubbing on the sidewall is from the old fender sheet metal which had been crumpled in, as I initially wrote. No concerns there and I haven't had a problem with rubbing since the body work was done. I should have rolled that lip in before painting, but not willing to risk cracking it now. At least not until I put some of my own other dents dings and scratches in it.

If your finger tips are like mine and you can put them all along the wheel lip and tire like shown in your first photo, you're good to go. You have discovered one thing I like to mention is that our cars can have a lot of variance from side to side. I've seen up to 1/2"!

Yep, always knew they were a little off. My 68 Sport Fury and Barracuda and all the rest have never been perfect. I can fit my fingers in like that photo, but that's as far as they go and they won't move. That's jammed in with a lot of pressure, not just lightly touching.



Thanks everyone! I decided to run with 255 60 15s in the back this go-around. I expect to burn through them pretty quickly and will make another decision mid-summer I'm sure. Cooper Cobras come in both so it'll be easy to swap back and forth if I want.

 

[Spyder]

I went with the Cooper Cobras in 255 60/15 and am completely happy with them. They look great, have enough clearance I'm comfortable with them, and they ride and handle well in the 20 or so miles I drove it yesterday. Good for burnouts, hook up fine when I want to launch, and look great. We've got a whole week of good weather coming up after some snow tomorrow so hopefully I'll get out for some more miles to run them through some more trials.

 

[toolmanmike]

One side I can slide my fingers through the gap and the other side I can't. The previous owner added an extra leaf to the springs to lift and stiffen them up (and they are pretty stiff) If I ever change springs, I will probably need to change tire size as well. A little lower or too much suspension movement, and there will be rubbing with the 255-60's.

 

[Challenger RTA]

That's a nice Dart! When I bought my Challenger. My family got the mopar bug. Two of my younger brothers had Darts. One had a 69 340 GT. The other had three over the years. A 70-72 and a 74 that ended up buying for a dally commuter. Just needed wheels. We were always darting around somewhere.
Almost forgot My sister got a Aspen RT.

 

[6PKRTSE]

Your wheel well lip looks wider than factory. I am guessing aftermarket lower replacement quarter skins. I can't get my finger tips in between my wheel well lip and rear tires and I never had any rubbing issues. I have about the same inside from tire to leaf springs also. All stock openings with wheel well trim.

 

[Spyder]

They are AMD as both were in bad shape. Great observation!

 

[Cuda Hunter]

 

[Cuda Hunter]

That is my cuda. 29.5 on stock rear quarters.
Quarters have been trimmed on the inside.
I have touched the side of my tire one time but that was because of a sideways slide.
Mistake, sometimes I'm a dumb ass.