Vin # Factory mistakes

[Rover]

Hello all,

I am new to your board, and Thank you. I have been a long time Pontiac guy, but am interested in moving to Mopar, and Challenger in particular.

I do have a lot of dash time in a 1970 Challenger, as a best friend had one many years ago.

I drove 9 hours round trip to look at a 1970 340 auto convertible yesterday. He has VIN # issues, in that he (Seller) has owned the car for 13 years, in and out of restoration shops, with bad results. The last one removed the tag to restore the dash. In doing so, they enlarged the holes in the dash tag to the point that the rosette rivets will not work, as they just fall through the holes.

He has the Vin plate, title, broadcast sheet, etc for the car. I an o'k with this so far.

Now he is working to reassemble the car, as the Sate needs a complete car to inspect /vin, /etc.

He through me a curve at the end of the day. The body is stamped BO, seveal places on the body, with trailing #s that tie to the Title. The running gear says "OB" instead of BO.

Without going further on conversations, he believes the factory guy mis- stamped the drivetrain on shift at the factory, as the same production number codes are consistent on the body, in several places, as well as on the running gear( trans and engine).

I have a couple of problems here. I will go ahead with the purchase, but would prefer to somehow get the original Vin tag back
on and not a state issued tag on the dash, and 2- I am not that anal about numbers matching drivetrain, but I want to know the facts before negotiating.

Finally, anyone ever heard of the factory messing up the stamping?

Any and all thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
Rover

 

[challenger6pak]

The drivetrain parts are stamped in the opposite order of the VIN and cowl. I do not know the reason. If the holes are too large for the riviets put washers over the holes and then rivet the VIN back on your dash. I had to do this once before. I am confused however. You state that he has the VIN. Then you state you perfer to get the original VIN. Have you seen the original VIN??

 

[Rover]

VIN Mistakes

Yes I have seen the Vin tag for the dash. The Owner is afraid the state inspector will take the car due to the tag being damaged. I too believe he is being overly worried, My other issue I think you addressed, that body Vin versus drivetrain vin would be reversed. BO on the body would result in an OB on the drivetrain, correct?

So you would get some washers, and re-install the dash Vin tag?

Thank you.

 

[DetMatt1]

A buddy of mine just sold a `71 Charger R/T project at Carlisle over the summer, that was missing the engine code on the vin tag so the vin was 1 # short, 12 instead of 13. Thankfully he still had the fender tag attached which did not leave out the 440.
Would it be possible to get some regular rivets, find the guy that can weld to aluminum pop cans together without leaving any holes and have extra material added to the standard rivet where it can then be ground down to look like slightly oversize rosette rivet?
Now, about this A66 vert! I have a thing for the `70 340 Challengers. Let;s hear some details!
Oh yeah and welcome to the site from the Motor City!

 

[challenger6pak]

Your state should know how Chrysler did the VIN on the parts. They should have it in a book. I'm in FL and they do not worry about things as much. We have our quirks. All states do. To start with I would ask an inspector if the VIN tag was removed for dash restoration, does the VIN need to be re attached with the original or original type rivets? If not you have no worry. If it does then I would ask about your situation. Have you verified if the VIN numbers on the cowl and the radiator support match the VIN tag? I know in your first post you say they are there. I just did not know if this is what you were told.

 

[Rover]

Vin Mistakes

DETMATT1 THANK YOU.

Details. 1970 Challenger convertible. Black top, white body, red interior. It has a 340 with X heads, I believe. Now it appears the drivetrain is matching(Thanks CHALLENGER6PAK) The interior has been redone. /automatic trans, rally gauges. It came down to 2 cars: 1 I found is a 1970 Challenger R/T 383/auto car that is factory Plum /crazy Purple-hardtop. All metal work done, but no engine and trans. Then this one, I have had 4 convertibles(3 GTOs and a Chevelle SS, and I guess I am still a ragtop guy.
The guy has boxes and boxes of new parts. He is the second owner. The odometer reads 82,500 miles. Engine and trans look like 82k. I had thought about a Plum /crazy car with white interior and top, but the interior is done, and looks great - so now I am thinking black on black, red interior, red bumblebee stripe on the tail, and some sort of red R/T type effect on the hood. The hood is a duel scoop hood. Power top, also.

 

[Rover]

Vin Mistakes

CHALLENGER6PAK

I am from out west, but flying across country for work. This car is in a different state, and I hear you about different states being quirky about certain things. We don't have safety inspections to get your tabs/license renewal, for example.

The Owner of the car is in a state that has inspections, etc, and is trying to do what is right, in his estimation. I am trying to work with him to find resolution, so we can finish the sale. I mentioned earlier, that I would rather have the original vin plate re-attached instead of a goofy state vin plate on it.

He won't sell the car until it is "legal", in his estimation. I would take the car tomorrow, and deal with this issue.
Thanks.

 

[challenger6pak]

I would not buy the car without the original VIN tag. You do not want someone else holding the original VIN tag to your car. If he will not give you the original VIN tag, I would walk from the sale. Check with your state. If they will accept the original tag, tell the owner. I know FL would accept it. It sounds like a great car.

 

[ramenth]

CHALLENGER6PAK

I am from out west, but flying across country for work. This car is in a different state, and I hear you about different states being quirky about certain things. We don't have safety inspections to get your tabs/license renewal, for example.

The Owner of the car is in a state that has inspections, etc, and is trying to do what is right, in his estimation. I am trying to work with him to find resolution, so we can finish the sale. I mentioned earlier, that I would rather have the original vin plate re-attached instead of a goofy state vin plate on it.

He won't sell the car until it is "legal", in his estimation. I would take the car tomorrow, and deal with this issue.
Thanks.

What state is he in? Remind me to avoid that state.

I wouldn't so much worry about the VIN plate holes being over large. Put it on with rivets that'll work, not what looks pretty. Document the procedure, that way if you sell the car, then the buyer will know why it was done this way.

Remember, guys changing out dashes R&I the VIN plate all the time. The rosetta rivets were somewhat of an anti-tamper device so that it would flag to the dealerships and those in the know to check the rest of the numbers before buying or selling. It could be hot. But as far as I know, there's no law, anywhere, that says you have to use 'em.

The biggest thing is that the VIN plate is in the proper location. The numbers match the title and registration (the biggest thing the state and your insurance company is going to worry about) and those numbers match the rest of the numbers on the vehicle, primarily the data plate and the door sticker.

This guy, in my opinion, is being overly cautious.

 

[challenger6pak]

Does this convertible have A66 on the fender tag. An A66 package is very rare in a convertible.

 

[DetMatt1]

If it's a `70 Challenger with a 340 4bbl, it is an A66. They made 264 340 4bbl A66 cars.

 

[fanofpetty]

I agree.... Walk away....it's not like it's a rare hemi car. There are plenty other challengers for sale with no issues like that one. Just my opinion though.

 

[challenger6pak]

An A66 convertible is one of the rarest Challenger convertibles built. Since it is numbers matching it is worth the battle to see if he can get the guy to sell it with the original VIN tag.

 

[Rover]

Vin Mistakes

Car does have the proper stamping on cowl and radiator support. Owner does have the original VIN for cowl, which I held in my hand and saw large holes from prior shop. Re-assembly is going along at a blazing pace. Owner is giving me updates almost every night.

 

[DetMatt1]

Wow, white with black top and red interior, very kool!
I just came accross another 340 car f.s. locally, FC7 car, but I think he's going to want too much for it. I will go check it out though...

 

[Chryco Psycho]

I didn't read the whole thread but the body is Always stamped reversed on the cowl rad wall etc so OBxxxxx, is stamped BOxxxxxx

 

[Rover]

Vin # Mistakes

The Challenger does have A66 on the fender tag. I checked in person today.

 

[Rover]

Vin # Mistakes

In talking to a friend. He says that there are rosetta rivets available in a larger size just for this purpose. Many people damage the Vin plate( enlarge the mounting holes) when restoring a dash apparently.

Make sense? Ever heard of larger rosetta style rivets?

Thanks very much.

 

[DetMatt1]

Oh man, you gotta post some pics of this car!! Sounds like a fantastic piece. Did you make the deal on it yet?
I haven't heard of larger Rosette style rivets personally but I bet you could do some research on the 'net and find them that way if there out there.
Do you know the build date of this car and wether it was an LA built car or Detroit?

 

[Benji]

I would use either oversize rivets OR use washers and attach the original back on the dash. You will need this to get a title in your state with the correct VIN.

If you ever plan on selling it and are worried that the new future prospective owner will find the oversized rivets or washers to be "fishy" I would contact AG Backeast http://www.datatags.com/ and explain your predicament. I believe they will reproduce a new tag with the correct size holes and the identical VIN provided you have the old tag and a title and you can prove you are not trying to pull a fast one.

Benji