WIW - Is this 70 six pac car thats missing drivetrain worthy to get involved ?

[440WB]

update -

NO TITLE -

only bill of sale

 

[440WB]

sorry Matt -

( about asking for the other cars )
I think he has a dart - swinger maybe?


could not think about anything else when he said he will NOT go to the DMV

 

[Cuda Hunter]

If buying with a bill of sale only,

You should really have the state police come to the car and run the vin number before any money changes hand.
You will have to hire a Notary of the Public to arrive with you and the money and have that bill of sale be an actual legal bill of sale. Not something he printed off of the internet that is generic.

I literally "hunt" for THIS car every day. Every single day, even when I have only 5 minutes on the computer I look and try.
This car doesn't come up often but they do come up for sale here and there.
Rarely 3 hours away in a barn. They are always bought up before I get my shot at it.

The no title thing really stings at 30K.

35 K to restore is low in my opinion. Granted I have not restored a 100K value car. So my opinion comes from a standard ole worker guy. That's a lotta dough for that many unknowns. Right now your at 65K but I bet you will be into the car 90K to get it to it's former glory if you think you can find the correct dated parts within a year.
Correct dated parts will cost a bunch and are super difficult to find, especially at an early date.
I have a November fc7 V code Dana D21 challenger missing everything except fender tag, vin tag and title. I have been putting parts together for it for a few years now. Even the replacement metal has to come from an early dated challenger to have the car appear correct for those who have 100K to spend on a car.
Early dated warranty blocks are very very difficult to find.

If you want the car to be worth more than 100K it will be necessary to have the correct dated parts everywhere. A warranty block will help with that 100K value whereas an original 6pak engine will not hold the value of the warranty block. I don't think my challenger would be worth more than 75K with every correct dated part due to it not being original. I bet I put more into it than that, as I can't do the paint.

At that asking price you will be doing this for the love of doing this.

Jumping through his hoops would turn me away. I would be very disappointed but I would walk as I work very hard for my money.

If there was a title, I would say buy it. Today. Tonight, tomorrow morning, buy it.

 

[Cuda Hunter]

I'm sure you have looked at prices for Nos parts.
Here is a link of a thread from one of our members.
The parts you need to make this a 100K car add up Fast!

FOR SALE - NOS and Orginal Parts

nos and original parts: nos cuda road lamp bracket, -100 nos cuda trunk lid, -2000 nos cuda challenger convertible door glass, -1750 nos ge headlights for cuda, -100 pr nos cuda fender gill incert retainers, -500 set of 4 nos am radio in original box, -800 nos hemi hockey stick stripes, -400 pr...

www.forebodiesonly.com

 

[DetMatt1]

sorry Matt -

( about asking for the other cars )
I think he has a dart - swinger maybe?


could not think about anything else when he said he will NOT go to the DMV

That’s ok. A bodies are not my thing but I’m always on the lookout for big Chryslers & Imperials.

 

[pschlosser]

If buying with a bill of sale only,

You should really have the state police come to the car and run the vin number before any money changes hand.

Actually, you can call any law enforcement and they can verify over the phone. This is not an uncommon thing they do. No personal data is revealed. You simply ask if its reported stolen, because you're preparing to buy without a title.

I can do this in California with Highway Patrol, County Sheriff and city Police. In my experience, the motor vehicle department is unreliable for this check. If the VIN is not in the law enforcement computers, it hasn't been reported stolen.

With a bill of sale you can sue the seller if they sell you a stolen vehicle. Further, you can sue for damages when the numbers get bigger, like this 30K+.

I bought a vehicle bill-of-sale only that turned out to be stolen. I got my money back because the police wanted to know who sold it to me. I followed the police over to the sellers house so I could ID the guy at the door.

It was then I learned I could simply call the police to verify prior to a sale, but, you MUST have the VIN number, as license plates are not a reliable way to identify a vehicle. I've done this from a cell phone in a sellers driveway. Only one other time have I (nearly) purchased a stolen vehicle.

Also, in California, if the vehicle was NOT Non-Op'ed prior to the registration expiring, the NEW owner is on the hook for paying back due registration fees. So any vehicle not currently registered, it's worth a trip to the motor vehicle department to confirm fees to transfer title.

 

[440WB]

The Parade is in town!
so many red flags with this one -
that last statement he said yesterday just Stings -

My mistake was thinking the title was a given.
he mentioned the vehicle has been in the family since the early 80's.
Thats why I never asked about it until now

- thanks to you guys for your help direction -
I have bought a handful of cars in the past with a basic bill of sale - at that they were priced at junk prices that did not hurt my pocketbook. Didn’t think it mattered much 20 years ago to use the cars as parts since I wasn’t planning on registering and driving them on the road.

 

[pschlosser]

35 K to restore is low in my opinion.

Bodywork and paint, alone, can cost you this unless you do the majority of the work, yourself. Even then, you're trading your time for money. 35K is a good number when you have a complete car with all the parts and few of them need replacing.

If you want the car to be worth more than 100K it will be necessary to have the correct dated parts everywhere.

I'm not sure I agree on this. Agreed a #s matching car is worth more than one that is not. By #s matching, I refer to the engine block and transmission stamped numbers.

In my opinion, a restored V-car (440-6) with all the proper parts is hitting 100k, these days.

If I'm right, it will still be a challenge to restore this rusty shell for less than 90K. Just some quick math: 30K (title) + 30K (body and paint) + 30K missing or improved parts.

Paying more for a complete, maybe a running V-car, for 50K + 20K paint + 10K improved parts isn't all that different, now that I put some numbers down.

 

[440WB]

talking to our Secretary Of State DMV office today they’re telling me it’s illegal in Michigan to buy a car with just a bill of sale.
You must have a transferred title.

 

[440WB]

I did have the numbers checked so the car is not stolen

Yesterdays seller was claiming the vehicle belong to his uncle, who passed away 15 years ago

Accordion to DMV office you would have to have the trustee of the Estate transfer the title, need the death certificate, old registration the known persons name, then with a Bill of sale and proof it was his car to the DMV which they said they should have the last known registration name and address

after that portion is clear
then it would go to the person that selling it to me who would have to put it in his name as the seller before I can even transfer that title into my name

Lots of red tape for sure and a couple months of time involved

 

[440WB]

Yes most labor myself
As far as the work being performed, I was planning to cut and weld to replace what was necessary to perform bodywork with painting
Install the interior and replace the front windshield with changing front end parts

was planning to re-assemble then
to purchase NOS and very good OEM parts along the way and change out what was necessary after the fact

 

[pschlosser]

I did have the numbers checked so the car is not stolen

Yesterdays seller was claiming the vehicle belong to his uncle, who passed away 15 years ago

Accordion to DMV office you would have to have the trustee of the Estate transfer the title, and or the persons name with a Billis sale and proof it was his car to the DMV which they said they should have the last known registration name and address

after that portion is clear
then it would go to the person that selling it to me who would have to put it in his name as the seller before I can even transfer that title into my name

Lots of red tape for sure and a couple months of time involved

Ah, good point. If the title was NEVER in the sellers name, then it's messier, agreed.

In California, after some number of years of inactivity (I think it's 10 years of no registration, no DMV activity) there is NO RECORD of the title in the DMV computers. In those cases, it's simpler but also more work to transfer title. It's simpler, because the bill of sale declares who the owner was, and who the new owner will be.

However, when the car is NOT in the computer, it must be inspected to validate the VIN numbers with the frame to verify the VIN on the bill of sale is accurate. In some cases, the car may be in pieces, and must either be carted to the inspection station on a flat bed, or one waits to transfer title until the car is rolling and can then be inspected.

So this title thing may work to your advantage, if you can navigate it, because it will deter competitive buyers.

 

[440WB]

That’s the thing seller wants all the money now - to sell right now
He wont wait for couple months

He won’t even help with the paperwork

The way he’s been talking all the parts that are left on the car will be sold so he can have the money he needs while we wait

This is a grey area for me.
I never did feel comfortable with this person

Come to find out a little while ago
while I was sending messages to him upon my discovery with the Secretary of State DMV office

He rudely states that
why am I bothering him with my stories, as he is now receiving a down payment from a buyer

Wow

Some of you guys were right for me to walk away in the beginning

I was hoping,

however, I can see now he was playing me for a good laugh…

 

[440WB]

You know what in the long run I’m better off
I get to keep my cash,
and I don’t have to put it in his game playing unreliable, jerking me around hands

 

[72 blue 400]

is it in greenville michigan

 

[Cuda Hunter]

You can get a title through Alabama, New Hampshire and I think Florida for somewhere in the 800 to 1K range for any old car.
The services are out there and advertised, You just have to look and find them .

 

[DetMatt1]

I’ve gotten Michigan titles for 4 cars that came to me without in the last couple of years and it cost me a whopping $100 + S.O.S. fees. One car was a Michigan car while the other 3 were from out of state.

 

[basinblue340]

you would have to do a vin search to make sure it was never a salvage or scrap title and its poss the guy knows it and is hiding it

 

[pschlosser]

If the car was SALVAGED in its past, and then stored for 10+ years without registration, and when the VIN is no longer in the given state's DMV computers.... the salvage designation is lost.

 

[Challenger RTA]

The car maybe registered in an other state. Let alone in someone else's name not his uncles. All hearsay no proof not even an old registration? Let sleeping dogs lay or it might come back and bight you hard. Or the current owner.