• Welcome to For E Bodies Only !

    We are a community of Plymouth Cuda and Dodge Challenger owners. Join now! Its Free!

70 Challenger RT/SE restoration started

challenger6pak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
4,070
Reaction score
917
If the booster or the check valve were bad you should still have brakes. The pedal will be hard but the brakes will hold the car on an incline. If you can't hold the car on an incline, it should be mechanical. Try it without the adjustable proportioning valve. Is it better? The same?? I see you have the factory valve there also.
 

tomps

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
104
Reaction score
1
Location
Maine
The brakes operate and the car will stop but I sure wouldn't want to drive it in traffic........does not stop well or fast. Pedal is hard and will hold the car on a incline but not well. The factory valve is there then the flow goes to the proportioning valve. I did find an electrical connection hanging under the factory valve that was not plugged to anything....I did connect it to the factory valve??

When the new fuel tank arrives it will go to the shop as I don't have a lift to do the work....hopeful to figure out the brake issue then.
 

challenger6pak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
4,070
Reaction score
917
If the electrical connection was a black female plug, it is for the brake light warning system. It is a ground wire that causes the red brake light to come on at the bottom of your instrument cluster. It grounds when the brakes loose fluid pressure.
 

tomps

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
104
Reaction score
1
Location
Maine
Still can't get this brake issue resolved. Have talked with SSBC tech but still issues remaining and nothing seems to correct the problem of a hard brake pedal and poor braking. We're not getting enough fluid pressure to close the caliper pistons to the rotors. Vacuum is a little weak but even "jumping" off another vehicle didn't make a difference. The shop measured the pressure at the caliper pistons and it's weak. The kit I purchased from SSBC included a master cylinder, calipers, rotors, pads, proportioning valve. Even went so far as to stick a camera down into the brake booster. It old and a bit rusty and that's the only part of the brake system that hasn't been replaced/rebuilt. Tried by-passing the proportioning valve and adjusting every which way. Same problem....not enough bite on the front. Now we're looking at the bore size for the master cylinder. Nothing is easy is it. At this point wondering if the problem could by in the booster itself....but that wouldn't solve that lack of pressure in engaging the caliper pistons?
Argh..........
 

tomps

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
104
Reaction score
1
Location
Maine
Sounds like the booster is probably the main brake issue. Replace that before you do anything else. You want to go one step at a time

That's what I ultimately decided to do. I found a rebuilt original style Bendix part #18268 (same as mine) located in NH (one state over for a change). We'll try that and see what happens.........
 

tomps

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
104
Reaction score
1
Location
Maine
Well let me say this...SSBC disc brake conversion kits for this car is absolute junk!!

Their tech support.....crud. We swapped out the power booster (nothing to do with SSBC). The master cylinder they supplied absolutely is garbage. Went back to a stock set-up for power drum brakes (1" bore). The bore size is too large on the SSBC not allowing the pistons in the calipers to close and the brakes to bite. Even the brake pads we had to change out to a NAPA brand with a different composition. The techs revealed that these calipers were designed for a 65-66 Mustang? Wow.

Bottom line...I would NOT recommend the disc brake conversion kit by SSBC. And it doesn't look like I'm the only one that's had problems with it.

So tonight was finally the first drive after two years. Only problem was the speedo cable was resting on the exhaust and it melted. Coulda been worse.

I want to thank everybody for the site, the input, the advie over the last couple of years as I undertook a project far beyond my capability. At this point I may not be able to keep the car.....got WAY too much tied up in it and a 2nd kid off to college in another year. I'll enjoy it for a bit (I hope)!

Thanks all!!

Mark in Maine :icon_jook:
 

tomps

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
104
Reaction score
1
Location
Maine
Glad it is up and going. I hope you get to enjoy it.

Well I did briefly argh!

Took it out Friday night for a little drive. Went about 15 miles/30 minutes and everything ran great. Took it out the next night and 10 minutes in to the trip it just died. Was traveling about 40 mph and the throttle had no response then I coasted in to a lot. The car would crank over fine but no fire. I took off the air cleaner, fuel was squirting into the carb. Just wouldn't fire, like there was no spark. A call to AAA and we were towed home. It has always started hard when hot (that doesn't take long). The next morning after a lot of cranking the car started to sputter. Eventually got it running but had to keep the foot on the pedal and the RPM's up. Then it would idle but acted like it was going to stall.

Just put in new fuel tank, sending unit, fuel pump, plugs, wires. Non-vented fuel cap. It has electronic ignition. Bench tested the coil.....1.8 ohms?
My 1st thought was possible vapor lock but that would have come in to play the previous night (longer drive) so I'm leaning away from that.

On the good side...the brakes are great now once we put in the rebuilt booster and stock master cylinder!!
 

moparleo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
7,105
Reaction score
1,891
Location
So. Cal. Riverside area Moreno Valley
Glad that it stops now...just have to get it to keep running.. Sounds like more diagnostic fun. Remember again to recheck every thing ignition related and don't assume anything. Start from the beginning. Battery voltage level, voltage to coil, voltage from coil. Voltage with key on, now with key to start. Ballast resistor, ignition box. Etc.....
 

74chlngrTT5.9

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
278
Reaction score
23
Location
SoCal
Timing was also my thought because of hard start issue. Check to make sure it is tight and hasn't rotated.
 

tomps

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
104
Reaction score
1
Location
Maine
Tinkered some more with it recently. Swapped out the ignition module. Car starts and runs fine until temp gets up to operating range. Runs fine for 10-15 minutes then it stalled in the driveway. Went to crank it......just cranks and cranks and cranks so that wasn't it.....same problem as last week. Pulled air cleaner...fuel flowing good to carb. As soon as it hits the bowls it looks like its vaporizing ("smoke"). Not convinced that's the issue as I've driven it previously a lot longer/farther without incident in warmer weather.

Haven't check the chain....seems to crank and start fine.
 

tomps

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
104
Reaction score
1
Location
Maine
It could be an overheating ignition coil.


After sitting for over well over 1.5 hours the coil was still very warm to the touch. For the heck of it shot down the street to NAPA and pick one up. Car fired up, ran smooth for the usual 10-15 minutes then stalled out. Cranks and cranks but won't fire until cooled down. Then I gotta pump the heck out of the pedal to get it fired back up. Non-vented fuel cap which I believe is correct for the flip top option. Has a brand spankin' new tank, sending unit, fuel pump.....

The new coil was pretty warm. Gotta keep digging I guess.........
 

moparleo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
7,105
Reaction score
1,891
Location
So. Cal. Riverside area Moreno Valley
After it warms up and just cranks without starting, have you checked the obvious, like spark? Voltage to and from coil ? You need a buddy to help with checking these things. Always back to the beginning. Compression, fuel, spark, timing.
 

challenger6pak

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
4,070
Reaction score
917
I had the same problem when the white porcelain voltage resister went bad.
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
1,666
Reaction score
728
Location
Washington
Here is an excerpt from a Mopar tech article, regarding a crank but no start condition: "If there's no spark, we go to step B. First, check the voltage at the "+" side of the coil, which may also be marked "bat" or "ECU." It should be at least 8 volts with the key in the "run" position, and within a 0.5 volts of the battery voltage during cranking. If it fails the "run" voltage test, swap the ballast. On cars with the old-style 5-pin ECU, try the ballast regardless of the voltage readings.

Still no good? Meatball surgery time. Run a clip lead from the "+' side of the coil to the "+" side of the battery. It will start now, but you'd better drive home fast, as the coil and ECU (or points) will be taking a beating. Safely home, you can check the bulkhead connector, ignition switch, etc."

If the coil "+" voltage is correct, but there's still no spark, either the ECU or points, depending on what you have, is probably the culprit. For points, you can disconnect the distributor wire from the coil, and measure the resistance from the wire to ground. It should pulsate from zero to infinity as the engine is cranked. No? Take off the cap, crank, and check that the points are actually opening. A quickie eyeball adjustment will usually get you going, but points have been known to "grenade," rivets actually popping out, arms breaking off, etc. That's why you packed a spare set, right?

If you have electronic ignition, and brought an ECU, you're in like Flint. Of course, occasionally the ignition coil itself, as well as the distributor's internal mag pickup coil and/or it's leads, will fail. Such is life!
 

tomps

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
104
Reaction score
1
Location
Maine
O Ok......GREAT info gents. I'll have to get some help to run some of these ideas as I don't have any testing equioment and a few require helping hands.

I didn't think the ceramic ballast would come in to play? I read somewhere it's not even needed for an electronic ignition conversion. Any truth to that? I did buy one and put it on late last night but haven't tested with the new one on. I don't understand how that could be the culprit as I thought it only came in to play during start ups? Car will start fine when cold or cooled down...then stall out at idle in my driveway 10-15 minutes later and just crank. Fuel hits the bottom of the carb and turns to "fog". I need to see if I'm losing spark. So far I've replaced the coil and ECU so those can't be it (they were older anyway and on the car when I purchased so not a big deal to replace). Spark...distributor I guess I will look in to next but I'll need some better expertise/assistance as this sure isn't my thing.

Thanks folks......
 
Last edited:
Back
Top