91 ethanol free or 93 w/10% ethanol

[7DCUDA383A]

Opinions are welcome , I have a Phillips with EO 91 about 10 miles away or BP with 93 but 10% ethanol 3 miles away , driving to get gas isn't a problem just wondering what people use , I have a 383 TF with a mild cam and an Edelbrock .

 

[KlsCuda]

I've had that debate with myself often. I tend to get the non-ethanol and fill the tank before I put the car away for winter storage. the non-ethanol gas should last longer.

but for daily driving I've used both and didn't notice a difference in performance, pinging, etc. so i'd also be curious what others think/have experienced

I'm running a 440 - 6 pack mild build - Tremec 5 speed.

 

[sixpactogo]

Well.........We all know what opinions are good for but you asked. My experience with ethanol over the years has taught me that anything with a carburetor does not get ethanol laced gas ever. Fuel injection handles it fine. Ethanol ate up the accelerator pump on two of my carbureted cars and ate up the plastic fuel line on my lawn mower and weed whacker. That said, I quit allowing ethanol in anything other than fuel injected vehicles and have had zero problems since.
The 6.1 in my 68 Charger is fuel injected but I still run the non ethanol in it.

 

[Supernaut]

Ethanol helps "create" gasoline octane rating. In my experience, the ethanol has likely boiled out of the pump's 91+ underground tank while sitting there so who knows what you're left with? I daily run a high compression sbc in my 55 Chevy and just buy 87 with bottle of Lucas octane booster. IMO, any high octane pump gas is a waste of money.

 

[pschlosser]

I concur ethanol is hard on vintage carburetor engine parts. I've see this year, over year, in my 1980s Yamaha Scooter hobby, as well as most muscle cars before the 1990s. Storage, too, seems to be poor with ethanol fuels. I have to rebuild scooter carbs every 3-5 years, and there is often the same powdery residue left behind. Despite using decent fuel filters.

Sadly, I live in California, where people and legislation is uppity. You don't really get much choice, out here. If they did, I would avoid ethanol fuels in older vehicles.

 

[DetMatt1]

Ethanol helps "create" gasoline octane rating. In my experience, the ethanol has likely boiled out of the pump's 91+ underground tank while sitting there so who knows what you're left with? I daily run a high compression sbc in my 55 Chevy and just buy 87 with bottle of Lucas octane booster. IMO, any high octane pump gas is a waste of money.

You do realize that it’s a consistent 55 degrees or so anywhere past 42” underground, right?

I’d run the non-ethanol if I had the choice but I don’t around me so I run with several ounces of marine 2 cycle oil in every fill-up and I have had zero fuel related issues since. That’s close to 30k miles in over 12 years.

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

You do realize that it’s a consistent 55 degrees or so anywhere past 42” underground, right?

I’d run the non-ethanol if I had the choice but I don’t around me so I run with several ounces of marine 2 cycle oil in every fill-up and I have had zero fuel related issues since. That’s close to 30k miles in over 12 years.

Not necessarily true. Ground temperature depends on the geographic location. Here in South Texas the year round ground temperature is 72*. The cost of non-ethanol is also substantially higher than even 93 octane in our area. The other factor is non-ethanol fuel in our area is only 90 octane, so using it may require retuning the engine to avoid pinging.

 

[Challenger RTA]

I've had that debate with myself often.

Me too! And I always listen and win! My 2¢ on this is that it is a 3 letter agency failure.

 

[7DCUDA383A]

So using 91 non-ethanol is ok but maybe use an octane booster .

 

[pschlosser]

In my experience, the ethanol has likely boiled out of the pump's 91+ underground tank while sitting there so who knows what you're left with?

Pure E100 ethanol has a lower vapor pressure (boiling point) than pure fossil fuels, something like 3 times lower. So yea, this pure alcohol can "cook off" at lower temperatures compared to "pure" gasoline. But, in the case of blended fuels, such as E85, the overall vapor pressure of the mixture goes up, because of some chemistry magic.

The storage problem with ethanol-blended fuels is not that the alcohol cooks off, it's that the ethanol absorbs water. When this happens, the ethanol tends to be less blended with the fossil fuel, and separates on its own with the water, typically below the fossil fuels.

So using 91 non-ethanol is ok but maybe use an octane booster .

Octane boosters are fine, but I don't care for the added cost. If I'm doing the math right, an $8 bottle of booster over a 20 gallon fill up, adds about 40 cents to the gallon. That isn't worth it to me.

The labelling on these bottles of booster can be misleading, and some may argue they're exaggerated. In most cases, the meaning of "points" is generally 0.1%. So the amount of fuel being treated (or boosted) affects how much boost actually occurs.

If we believe the numbers, research suggests it takes 3-ounces of Lucas Octane booster to boost 5 gallons of fuel by 30 "points." or 3%.

• 87 boosts to 89.6
• 89 boosts to 91.7
• 91 boosts to 93.7
• 94 boosts to 96.8!

In California, where fuel prices can be the highest in the nation, the added costs of mid-octane over low, and high over mid-octane fuels is only about 10-cents per upgrade.

And let's not forget, sometime during the 1980s, the US changed how it calculates octane rating. The numbers went down. If I recall correctly, the original rating as RON, Research Octane Number. The new one is called AKI Anti-Knock Index, but still referred to as "octane."

The following link has some great details about fuels and octane ratings:

https://www.goapr.com/support/fuel_guide/

• 87 AKI = 91 RON
• 91 AKI = 93 RON
• 93 AKI = 98 RON

So when I'm running modern-day 93 octane fuel, that's nearly equivalent to a 1970s 98 octane gas. That's pretty awesome, nearly as high as Aviation fuel.

So in my opinion, if you want 93+ octane fuel, you're better off buying the higher octane at the pump.

 

[7DCUDA383A]

Pure E100 ethanol has a lower vapor pressure (boiling point) than pure fossil fuels, something like 3 times lower. So yea, this pure alcohol can "cook off" at lower temperatures compared to "pure" gasoline. But, in the case of blended fuels, such as E85, the overall vapor pressure of the mixture goes up, because of some chemistry magic.

The storage problem with ethanol-blended fuels is not that the alcohol cooks off, it's that the ethanol absorbs water. When this happens, the ethanol tends to be less blended with the fossil fuel, and separates on its own with the water, typically below the fossil fuels.



Octane boosters are fine, but I don't care for the added cost. If I'm doing the math right, an $8 bottle of booster over a 20 gallon fill up, adds about 40 cents to the gallon. That isn't worth it to me.

The labelling on these bottles of booster can be misleading, and some may argue they're exaggerated. In most cases, the meaning of "points" is generally 0.1%. So the amount of fuel being treated (or boosted) affects how much boost actually occurs.

If we believe the numbers, research suggests it takes 3-ounces of Lucas Octane booster to boost 5 gallons of fuel by 30 "points." or 3%.

• 87 boosts to 89.6
• 89 boosts to 91.7
• 91 boosts to 93.7
• 94 boosts to 96.8!

In California, where fuel prices can be the highest in the nation, the added costs of mid-octane over low, and high over mid-octane fuels is only about 10-cents per upgrade.

And let's not forget, sometime during the 1980s, the US changed how it calculates octane rating. The numbers went down. If I recall correctly, the original rating as RON, Research Octane Number. The new one is called AKI Anti-Knock Index, but still referred to as "octane."

The following link has some great details about fuels and octane ratings:

https://www.goapr.com/support/fuel_guide/

• 87 AKI = 91 RON
• 91 AKI = 93 RON
• 93 AKI = 98 RON

So when I'm running modern-day 93 octane fuel, that's nearly equivalent to a 1970s 98 octane gas. That's pretty awesome, nearly as high as Aviation fuel.

So in my opinion, if you want 93+ octane fuel, you're better off buying the higher octane at the pump.

So putting 93 with 10% ethanol is good , im just trying to put in what's best from what I can get in my area , thanks for the info .

 

[mrmopar340]

If you're running ethanol be prepared to replace needles, floats and rubber lines. And gas filters. If a carb or fuel line isn't made for modern fuels with ethanol be prepared. Part of the reason I don't use ethanol in my small equipment. I want it to start easily after winter.

 

[7DCUDA383A]

If you're running ethanol be prepared to replace needles, floats and rubber lines. And gas filters. If a carb or fuel line isn't made for modern fuels with ethanol be prepared. Part of the reason I don't use ethanol in my small equipment. I want it to start easily after winter.

That's the main reason I don't want modern gas so I'm looking into the non ethanol 91 by where I live , and maybe octane booster , it's a weekend car not a daily .

 

[sixpactogo]

That's the main reason I don't want modern gas so I'm looking into the non ethanol 91 by where I live , and maybe octane booster , it's a weekend car not a daily .

I run the 91 premium (without ethanol) in everything with a carburetor with no additives or boosters. My 6 pack engine had a 10:1 compression ratio and liked a little boost but ran ok on it with a minor ping from time to time. If you get no pinging, I wouldn't spend the money on the Lucas.

 

[pschlosser]

I want it to start easily after winter.

A few years ago, I started using Sta-Bil 360, their ethanol treatment product. It works out to about 20 cents a gallon. Last year, 5 different scooters and cars had little or no trouble starting in the spring when I used this product. I'm gonna keep using it to determine it's impact on the carburetor rebuilds I mentioned in an earlier post. But so far, so good.

The only problem I seem to have, is sometimes, storage isn't planned. It just works out I've not driven something for several months and the (untreated) fuel seems to degrade.

And in terms of ethanol-blended fuels impacting automotive fuel hoses and accelerator pumps, in my experience, it takes a long time for the item to fail, like several years. Once they fail, they're replaced with ethanol resistant alternatives.

I think China only began using ethanol a few years ago, nationwide. So I can't say their small engine products, such as blowers and chainsaws, are well prepared for ethanol resistance in their fuel delivery components. And given how cleanly ethanol burns, it may be here to stay.

For those with access to ethanol-free fuels, go for it. Otherwise, it seems like it's just something we have to deal with.

 

[7DCUDA383A]

A few years ago, I started using Sta-Bil 360, their ethanol treatment product. It works out to about 20 cents a gallon. Last year, 5 different scooters and cars had little or no trouble starting in the spring when I used this product. I'm gonna keep using it to determine it's impact on the carburetor rebuilds I mentioned in an earlier post. But so far, so good.

The only problem I seem to have, is sometimes, storage isn't planned. It just works out I've not driven something for several months and the (untreated) fuel seems to degrade.

And in terms of ethanol-blended fuels impacting automotive fuel hoses and accelerator pumps, in my experience, it takes a long time for the item fails, like several years. Once they fail, they're replaced with ethanol resistant alternatives.

I think China only began using ethanol a few years ago, nationwide. So I can't say their small engine products, such as blowers and chainsaws, are well prepared for ethanol resistance in their fuel delivery components. And given how cleanly ethanol burns, it may be here to stay.

For those with access to ethanol-free fuels, go for it. Otherwise, it seems like it's just something we have to deal with.

I have heard of 2 stations within 10 miles of where I live so I will be checking for sure .