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I was going to purchase this car. But I need some expert advise.

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Car is listed a 1971 440 6 pack car. It has a V code in the vin ( S23V1B296014 ) The car does not have a build sheet , the fender tag represents all the options. But it may be a remanufactured one. The car is clean. Does anyone know of this car? How much is it worth? Thanks for your advice.

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pschlosser

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my opinion:

with a build sheet, genuine fender tag, and numbers matching engine and transmission, it's worth close to 6 figures, or just over that. too valuable to drive, IMO.

it's optioned (a little too) beautifully, and with a repop fender tag, the originality of the options is probably fake.
but at the right price, few will really care. don't buy as an investment. buy it for fun, to drive, and to show off.
presuming all those parts are OEM, and not repops, like the rear window louvers, gull wing, rim blow wheel, etc, it's worth 70K.
 

moparlee

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Does the partial vin number stamped on the radiator support and on the drivers side cowel area match the vin tag?
 

pschlosser

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Does the partial vin number stamped on the radiator support and on the drivers side cowel area match the vin tag?

VIN matching is important. But if it didn't match, it will still be a tribute car. It's all them other rare and terrific options that make it a high dollar car. Unless their authenticity is confirmed, it's value is lower as a tribute car.
 

6PKRTSE

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I'd say 70-85G's. Depending on if original fender tag and options. If all points to being correct, then around 6 figures.
 

Xcudame

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If you can post a picture of the fender tag, it should be easy to spot if it's a fake or original! The VIN is definitely a 440 Sixpack, and if the engine, transmission, radiator yoke and cowl have the same VIN, the price these guys are telling you are reasonable. There has to be a Mopar club near you who may know about this car. If they don't know, there should be someone with a lot of knowledge to go over the car to ensure it's authenticity! I'd want several people to help look it over before handing over $80 to $100k for a car like this!
 

pschlosser

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If they don't know, there should be someone with a lot of knowledge to go over the car to ensure it's authenticity! I'd want several people to help look it over before handing over $80 to $100k for a car like this!

This car is too cool for it to be an unknown sleeper barn find.

It's kind of strange that the difference in value between a tribute car and an authentic one, is only about 20-30K.

Were it authentic, it would be at Mecum where it may come in at $120-$150K. Since it's NOT, there are more nails in the coffin.

Even if it IS a little fakey, there are many girls that would do unspeakable things on its front seat!
 
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VIN matching is important. But if it didn't match, it will still be a tribute car. It's all them other rare and terrific options that make it a high dollar car. Unless their authenticity is confirmed, it's value is lower as a tribute car.
The vin matches the fender tag. If it doesn't match the cowl, what's the car worth?

The guys at Grave Yard cars getting big money for their clones.
 

pschlosser

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This is my opinion, but seems to be one I have learned by consensus over many years at car shows, auctions, and other thoughts expressed by those in this hobby I have come to respect.

There may be four categories a restored/unrestored car can fall in to:

1. all numbers matching
a) bears authenticated VIN. By authentic, I mean the dashpad, door sticker, body sheetmetal stamps, body code plate, broadcast sheet and title VIN numbers all match the same 13-character number. These numbers have not been altered, and do not appear to be over-stamped or counterfeit.
b) the motor type is a motor matching the type of motor encoded in the VIN.
c) the drivetrain is numbers matching. By matching, I mean the partial 8-character VIN stamped on the engine and transmission match the VIN. A numbers matching car will also be motor matching.
d) all options matching. By matching, I mean the options the car is presented with correlate and match (and corroborated by) the body code plate and/or broadcast sheet. If a given option was replaced by an aftermarket duplicate, for any reason, I believe this still counts as options matching. This is common during restoration, and in some cases, is difficult to prove one way or another.

2. not numbers matching. This is pretty common as during the life of the car, engines get blown up, transmissions replaced, and so forth. In some or many cases, this change is involuntary and unavoidable.

3. not motor matching. The motor type does not match the type encoded by the VIN. The VIN telling you the motor type is unique to Chrysler products, and I don't think it's found in GM or Ford cars. But this is a voluntary deviation from the factory original motor type the car was originally made. This becomes a "tribute car" and can be an original 6-cylinder car with a 426 hemi bolted in. Anyone can make a car like this. They need only to have deep enough pockets. To argue this is just as valuable as #1 condition, means we reward those with bigger budgets.

4. not options matching. This is another (in most cases) voluntary deviation from factory original. Just because someone gets lucky, and finds a cute option at a swap meet (example, rear window louvers) doesn't mean they can bolt it on, and claim the car is now more rare and more valuable, just because they bolted something on. Again, we don't reward people who fake things by deceptive means. To deviate from factory options also seems it is just like the "tribute car" scenario. Sadly, when a car is missing BOTH its body code plate and its broadcast sheet, there is no reliable way to tell which options came with the car, and which ones were bolted on later. So a car missing these items falls into the "tribute car" category, because there is no corroborating evidence to the contrary. Pulling a body code plate and/or broadcast sheet from a car that is still on the road is a pretty sad maneuver.

Condition #1 is the highest value condition the car can be in. It's a debate if it's worth more restored, versus unrestored in nice condition. Maybe it's worth a little less if it needs restoration, body work and paint, etc.

Condition #2 is slightly less in value, than the top condition #1. How much less? Arguable, maybe 5% less.

Condition #3 and #4 is a mixture of factors when calculating a car's value. The value of the parts themselves comes in to play. But for the most part, the sum of the parts is not greater than the whole. In other words, two cars, identical in every way, the car in condition #1 is more valuable than a car in condition #3 or #4. How much more? Another topic of debate, but at least 25%. The more rare the options, the greater the percentage over #3 & 4. I seem to recall a condition #1 1970 Hemi Cuda selling this year for over $1,000,000 at Mecum.

Sadly, as Condition 1 and 2 cars increase in value and get further out of reach of most budgets, cars in condition 3 and 4 become more profitable to make and sell.

So, back to this beautiful 440-6 car. It's either condition 1 or 2... or it's not. If it is, it's worth close to or above 100K. If it's not, then less, maybe closer to 75K.
 
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This is my opinion, but seems to be one I have learned by consensus over many years at car shows, auctions, and other thoughts expressed by those in this hobby I have come to respect.

There may be four categories a restored/unrestored car can fall in to:

1. all numbers matching
a) bears authenticated VIN. By authentic, I mean the dashpad, door sticker, body sheetmetal stamps, body code plate, broadcast sheet and title VIN numbers all match the same 13-character number. These numbers have not been altered, and do not appear to be over-stamped or counterfeit.
b) the motor type is a motor matching the type of motor encoded in the VIN.
c) the drivetrain is numbers matching. By matching, I mean the partial 8-character VIN stamped on the engine and transmission match the VIN. A numbers matching car will also be motor matching.
d) all options matching. By matching, I mean the options the car is presented with correlate and match (and corroborated by) the body code plate and/or broadcast sheet. If a given option was replaced by an aftermarket duplicate, for any reason, I believe this still counts as options matching. This is common during restoration, and in some cases, is difficult to prove one way or another.

2. not numbers matching. This is pretty common as during the life of the car, engines get blown up, transmissions replaced, and so forth. In some or many cases, this change is involuntary and unavoidable.

3. not motor matching. The motor type does not match the type encoded by the VIN. The VIN telling you the motor type is unique to Chrysler products, and I don't think it's found in GM or Ford cars. But this is a voluntary deviation from the factory original motor type the car was originally made. This becomes a "tribute car" and can be an original 6-cylinder car with a 426 hemi bolted in. Anyone can make a car like this. They need only to have deep enough pockets. To argue this is just as valuable as #1 condition, means we reward those with bigger budgets.

4. not options matching. This is another (in most cases) voluntary deviation from factory original. Just because someone gets lucky, and finds a cute option at a swap meet (example, rear window louvers) doesn't mean they can bolt it on, and claim the car is now more rare and more valuable, just because they bolted something on. Again, we don't reward people who fake things by deceptive means. To deviate from factory options also seems it is just like the "tribute car" scenario. Sadly, when a car is missing BOTH its body code plate and its broadcast sheet, there is no reliable way to tell which options came with the car, and which ones were bolted on later. So a car missing these items falls into the "tribute car" category, because there is no corroborating evidence to the contrary. Pulling a body code plate and/or broadcast sheet from a car that is still on the road is a pretty sad maneuver.

Condition #1 is the highest value condition the car can be in. It's a debate if it's worth more restored, versus unrestored in nice condition. Maybe it's worth a little less if it needs restoration, body work and paint, etc.

Condition #2 is slightly less in value, than the top condition #1. How much less? Arguable, maybe 5% less.

Condition #3 and #4 is a mixture of factors when calculating a car's value. The value of the parts themselves comes in to play. But for the most part, the sum of the parts is not greater than the whole. In other words, two cars, identical in every way, the car in condition #1 is more valuable than a car in condition #3 or #4. How much more? Another topic of debate, but at least 25%. The more rare the options, the greater the percentage over #3 & 4. I seem to recall a condition #1 1970 Hemi Cuda selling this year for over $1,000,000 at Mecum.

Sadly, as Condition 1 and 2 cars increase in value and get further out of reach of most budgets, cars in condition 3 and 4 become more profitable to make and sell.

So, back to this beautiful 440-6 car. It's either condition 1 or 2... or it's not. If it is, it's worth close to or above 100K. If it's not, then less, maybe closer to 75K.
Thanks for your advise.
 

Xcudame

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Radiator support would be my guess! And it appears to match! Basically that tells you the dash with the VIN and fender tag were moved over to a 318 car. I say 318 car because they were to most produced E-Bodies of all engine sizes. If the Challenger runs as good as it looks in the photos, and it appeals to you such that you'd be happy driving it anywhere you want to go, but it! It will only increase in value in the long run! 😀
 

Cuda Hunter

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It does appear the car has sold a few times at the big auctions.

No picture of the fender tag?

Is there a link that this car is for sale at?

radiator stamp match's the vin tag. Cowl stamp is an important one to see.
 
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It does appear the car has sold a few times at the big auctions.

No picture of the fender tag?

Is there a link that this car is for sale at?

radiator stamp match's the vin tag. Cowl stamp is an important one to see.
Thanks, So that was the radiator support number? I will post up the info on the the car when it arrives.
 
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