Trick Flow Hyd.Roller Users Step In! Noise/Rpm??

[CudaTaco500]

Hello! We recently got our Cuda back with the new build and I am a little paranoid about some noise and dyno results and was hoping to have some others with the Trick Flow/Howard's hyd.roller set up or hyd. Rollers in general weigh in on how noisy they find it and what rpm they've found it falls off or becomes unstable?

First off a run down of the build
440 source 500 Stroker
was told 10.6 compression
Holley sniper efi/hyperspark
Victor intake
Trick Flow 240 heads
Trick Flow/Howard's .600 lift cam
Harland sharp rockers.
Doug's 2in headers - 3in exhaust.
727 fmvb, 3000 stall
8 3/4 with 4.30s

When bringing the car home I noticed the valvetrain seemed fairly noticeable inside the car. Sewing machine idle and then becomes quite noticeable clack around 2,000rpm. The car ran great though. No issues, no hesitations or anything. Oil pressure seems good from what I was told and have seen reading the forums. It sits at 20-25 hot idle. Then above 40-45 with any touch of throttle. I took it back to where I've had the work done to let them listen just for peace of mind. I am not picky about noise so long as the car is healthy. They said it was alright and would probably be noisy. The car is pretty stripped bare at the moment as well etc. He reset the preload anyway while I was there.

Today the car was on the chassis dyno to put a tune in the holley. It still seems noisy to me standing next to the car but again don't mind if it's not hurting anything. They made a few pulls and did some tuning and picked up about 30rwhp and 20+lb/ft. But no matter what they did right at about 5600-5700rpm it hit a wall and dropped off a cliff and didn't want to rev. Where I'm assuming the valvetrain became unstable. Which again I'm fine with if it's common place.


Sorry for the long post. Just want to be confident this sounds normal to those with experience. I can try and get a good video of the noise inside by the weekend if need be

video of a dyno pull

 

[Adam]

I have never dealt with performance roller lifters but my small block Magnum stock roller lifters make zero noise. Easy enough to pull the valve covers and have a look. I would check for a bent pushrod, valve lash, rocker clearance, coil bind, etc. and look down at the lifters to see if anything stands out. I would also start it without valve covers and see what I could see/hear (Oil flow to the rockers, correct shaft orientation, etc.) Being a neat freak I would of course put towels everywhere to avoid a mess.

 

[Steve340]

Any engine I have done with a hydraulic roller has been quiet operating.
Maybe I have been lucky so far.

 

[Mopar Nut]

What oil are you using?

 

[Xcudame]

Did you (or the engine builder) check the lifter bores in the block? Often times the bores wear and are actually still OK for flat tappets, but not for longer roller lifters. Most people agree that bushing the lifter bores for roller tappets is the only way to go.

 

[CudaTaco500]

Thanks for input so far guys! Yeah my only personal experience has been a few small block ford's with pretty healthy hydraulic rollers and they were never noisy.. minus one that had 0 oil pressure when I got the car lol. I know back some 15 years ago when my dad last had this car on the road it had a 440 with a hydraulic flat tappet and it wasn't noisy either is why I became a bit paranoid about it.

as for oil it's currently running Lucas 20-50

I haven't checked the bores myself. All I really know is this engine originally came out of a Dart race car I had bought. After acquiring it we eventually decided to use it for parts to bring the Cuda back since it would never be street legal etc. When running in the Dart it had 440 source heads and I believe rockers and was running a fairly aggressive solid roller and wasn't noisy at all from what I could tell over the car but you couldn't hear much over that car lol. It was sent to a builder who re-bearinged it. Swapped pistons to a dish and rebalanced. Swapped over to my heads. It had a few issues and leaks thst the shop doing work on the rest of the car went over. All I know lash wise is they did it over again when I had them listen and said the noise and everything seemed normal. Then it hit the dyno the next day and they said it wasn't happy and didn't want to rev passed 5500 lol.

 

[Steve340]

Not wanting to rev out may be a valve spring problem.
The hydraulic rollers I have played with hit 6000-6500 no problem. That is with a beehive spring on most of the motors.

I thought the lifter bore thing was the other way around. A loose bore and the flat tappet lifter won't rotate.
The roller is more forgiving because it is longer and only goes up and down in one plane.

 

[Mopar Nut]

as for oil it's currently running Lucas 20-50

I had the same lifters noise using VR1 20W-50 with TF 240 heads and Comp. roller rockers. I switch to VR1 10W-30, the noise went away.

 

[Xcudame]

The longer roller tappet will wiggle around in a loose hole more than a short flat tappet. The big block mopar wasn't designed for long roller tappets. The lifter bores usually wear on the bottom allowing the longer roller tappet to really wiggle around. Most people rebuild an engine and don't check the lifter bores. Fortunately they usually use a High Volume oil pump and the extra oil masks a lot of clearance issues. IMO, for a serious big blick engine to run roller tappets, the lifter bores should be bushed and the newer beehive valve springs used.

 

[CudaTaco500]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna change the oil this weekend and have a look at it and also see if that makes any difference as mentioned. I'll have to look back through my paperwork a bit and see exactly whats there. All I know on springs is they called Howard's and told them which cam I had and heads etc and they suggested to spring to go with their cam. They went lighter than what was there. More to look at for sure.

 

[Mopar Nut]

Check your oil for metal and cut open your oil filter if possible especially if it’s break in oil. Does your paperwork show the brand/length of push rod your builder used?

 

[rikkitik]

I have TF240's on a 440, solid lifter cam, and 1.6 rockers. I had a somewhat similar problem when I put it together, it just didn't seem to want to pull "cleanly" past 6000rpm.
I did some checking, and found that the TrickFlow SFT springs are supplied by PAC. A quick phone call to PAC revealed that TrickFlow (despite their all around "good-ness") does not use the recommended installed height for the springs used. TF installed height is 1.900, PAC recommends 1.850 installed.
I bought and installed .050 offset locks, which cured the problem in my case.
Just a thought.........
Your situation could be simply the poor state of hydraulic lifters these days. A lot of problems with both roller, and flat tappet hydraulics.

 

[blubyou340]

I have never dealt with performance roller lifters but my small block Magnum stock roller lifters make zero noise. Easy enough to pull the valve covers and have a look. I would check for a bent pushrod, valve lash, rocker clearance, coil bind, etc. and look down at the lifters to see if anything stands out. I would also start it without valve covers and see what I could see/hear (Oil flow to the rockers, correct shaft orientation, etc.) Being a neat freak I would of course put towels everywhere to ae they hydrr

 

[blubyou340]

Are they hyd rollers? Do you roller rockers? If so, set the valve lash at min. 1/2 turn if possible if it sill makes alot of noise your pushrods are to long .do you have 1.5 or 1.6 rockers? What is max lift on in.- ex. Something is either to tight or not getting enough oil pressure! If you have 40 to 60 your good on pressure .make sure your lifter rail oil holes are up if has oil holes at the top of the lifter. Mark your distributor. And try adjusting your timing yourself. Soe times an engin will run better at diff settings then once broke in you can change for higher horpower. When someone dont so called pro works on your tthings they dont put asmuch care in it good luck man youll widdle her down keep at it

 

[Mopar Nut]

First off a run down of the build
440 source 500 Stroker
was told 10.6 compression
Holley sniper efi/hyperspark
Victor intake
Trick Flow 240 heads
Trick Flow/Howard's .600 lift cam
Harland sharp rockers.
Doug's 2in headers - 3in exhaust.
727 fmvb, 3000 stall
8 3/4 with 4.30s

What brand of lifters are you using?

 

[Mopar Nut]

@CudaTaco500

 

[CudaTaco500]

Hey guys. Thanks a lot! Sorry for the lack of replies. Life got hectic. One thing I did get around to was swapping the oil before and there wasn't any metal to speak of. It had nicer pressure closer to 30 idle and over 60 with throttle. Didn't change anything in the way of noise. I believe they are crower lifters were used.

all I know currently is the engine came out of the dart running with a relatively large not street friendly solid roller as it was just a track car when I got it. Had zero noise in that regard. The engine was pulled running.. sent to the machine shop for rebuild and swapped to a dish piston for pump gas and to a more street friendly lunati solid roller cam kit with comp roller rockers and its never been right since its found its way in the cuda. It was a noisy hear it clattering up the road before you heard the car type mess.. had a few completely different people set it. Never changed. Swapped everything over to the hyd roller. Cam, springs, lifters, pushrods, and went to Harland sharp rockers. Same exact problem. Doesn't seem to matter how you set em etc.

 

[CudaTaco500]

I got a bit of time the other day to pull valve covers quick. It seems to get lots of oil up top. Nothing had a bunch of play in the rockers or anything. Backed off everything and set it at a few different preload settings starting loose and getting tighter it just didn't seem to care. went around the block last time and got a bit of video that doesn't do much justice for sound but still captures a bit. Know this could be heard from a car following behind..

 

[Steve340]

I know you have preload but listening to that video you would swear it didn't.

 

[CudaTaco500]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I know even before I did it myself and took the car back when I heard it. they set it again and he said "this is tighter than I've ever normally set em" I've also noticed it likes to knock until it warms up too.