Winter project planning - Stock-ish 440, looking at Trick Flow 240s and a cam.

[Spyder]

Hello all! New to this forum and looking forward to learning a bunch. Looking for a cam and valvetrain suggestion for the below.

Last year I mostly "finished" a 20 year project of a '72 Challenger. Many many years ago I took the 440 out of a boat that had been built for that and put it in the car. Runs great, has decent power, and I don't NEED to change anything, but it's nowhere near where I want it to be. Forged crank, small valve 915 heads, ~10:1, currently has a junk Offenhauser 360 intake on it with an unknown cam, MSD box and distributor (also, wouldn't have bought the distributor with no vacuum advance if I had read more back probably 15 years ago when I was parts buying) and Edelbrock AVS2. TCI Streetfighter transmission (I wouldn't buy that again, but did it ~10 years ago without researching) and just recently put a Dr. Diff 3.55 Sure Grip in the rear end. It's Sublime, and has electric cutouts for when I want to be obnoxious.

Using the Dragy to check times, my 0-60 and 1/8 mile are just a tad slower than a stock 440 6-pack car would have been. Fun to run around in, but obviously I want more.

I'm pretty heavily considering this kit as a quick winter project: Trick Flow 620 HP PowerPort Top-End Engine Kit for Big Block Mopar 440 78cc chamber CNC ported heads TFS-K616-620-576 - TREperformance.com

It's got a flat hood on it and until I find a T/A hood, I'd like to keep it that way so hood clearance is an issue. That Trick Flow intake won't fit so I've already ordered and am planning to use the Holley SD. No matter what direction I go, I plan to use the Trick Flow 240 heads as they'll work with my current steering and exhaust setup, but am unsure on the cam. I want to keep enough vacuum for power brakes, and I'll likely only take it to the strip once or twice a year, mostly just want a rip around the countryside. I like the idea of 620 hp but realistically it's more than I need and I know that without all the other pieces just right I won't be near that anyway...and I don't want to start breaking other parts in the drivetrain with more power than it's set up for.

Suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I'm not on the technical knowledge or skill level of most of you but can figure it out as I go, and have done came and heads before on an old 68 Sport Fury I drove the crap out of when much younger.

I also recently brought home an ugly but complete and so-far rust free '65 Barracuda that's going to get a similar treatment to this one over the next several years. The Challenger took me 20 to finally get around to finishing, hoping the Plymouth will be 6 or so.

 

[moparlee]

Welcome to the site from Michigan! Very nice restoration

You should go on over to the Welcome Wagon and introduce yourself.

 

[mrmopar340]

Welcome from Virginia. Keep it stealth that's what I do. Never tell em what ya got...

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Welcome , Lunati is great choice for Mopar cams , they are designed by the guy who used to do Ultradyne .
The SD intake is awesome especially ported & will owrk well with the TF240 heads

 

[Challenger RTA]

I like how you mounted the flag pole on the rear 1/4. Very reminiscent of a T/A.

 

[Xcudame]

All I run on 440's these days are Holley Street Dominator intakes (I love Thermoquad carburetors) and Lunati Voodoo cams! They work well together and will work well with your TF240 heads! Seriously if you want lots of horsepower (620hp!) and power brakes you should figure on getting an auxiliary vacuum canister for the power brakes!

Personally I would go for around 550 hp as it would be more streetable and fun "ripping around the countryside"!

But 620 is possible! The Mopar performance solid flat tappet .528" lift and 284 duration is tough to beat. Andy Finkbeiner did a lot of testing with camshafts and the old .528 still holds it own even in 500 cubic inch strokers!

 

[Chryco Psycho]

The .528 is a great cam . I use 1.6 rockers

 

[Spyder]

Welcome to the site from Michigan! Very nice restoration

You should go on over to the Welcome Wagon and introduce yourself.

I'll throw an introduction up soon! Internet time is limited during hunting season.

I like how you mounted the flag pole on the rear 1/4. Very reminiscent of a T/A.

The whole goal when I bought this 20 something years ago was to make a big block T/A style car, so it's perfect!

All I run on 440's these days are Holley Street Dominator intakes (I love Thermoquad carburetors) and Lunati Voodoo cams! They work well together and will work well with your TF240 heads! Seriously if you want lots of horsepower (620hp!) and power brakes you should figure on getting an auxiliary vacuum canister for the power brakes!

Personally I would go for around 550 hp as it would be more streetable and fun "ripping around the countryside"!

But 620 is possible! The Mopar performance solid flat tappet .528" lift and 284 duration is tough to beat. Andy Finkbeiner did a lot of testing with camshafts and the old .528 still holds it own even in 500 cubic inch strokers!

550 would be fine, and not break other stuff. I'm not really worried so much about the number, I just want a bunch of torque and to be able to go out and drive if often. I don't have the knowledge to know cam numbers yet so I'll have to do some reading and learning, but that sounds like a great start.

 

[Spyder]

Back from elk hunts and have been doing a little reading and thinking to prep for this project. I like what I'm seeing about the 528 cam, although just for simplicity's sake I'd prefer to stick with hydraulic lifters over solid.

The car: Unknown bottom end internals, but from what I remember it was a fresh build on a 67 440 block with forged pistons and stock crank. The guy I bought it from said he put the best pistons he could find in it back when he built it, but that would have been ~25 years ago. It was in an old V-drive boat for a season, then we pulled it and I put it in the car, then it sat for 20 years before finally getting money and ambition together to finish it. It's got small valve 915 heads, currently has an Offenhauser 360 intake and AVS2 carb on it. It runs well and pulls fairly hard and leaves decent rubber strips, but it's not nearly as much bottom end as I want. I put a TCI tranny (probably a poor choice but I was younger and broker) and TC (don't remember the stall I went with) about 8 years ago but didn't drive it more than on and off trailers until this summer. Doctor Diff 3.55 third member, otherwise stock rear end, MSD ignition and distributor. It's got a flat hood and unless I can find a T/A hood, I'm going to keep that so hood clearance is a potential problem (but should be fine with the Holly SD intake).

I still plan to do Trick Flow 240 heads, and to put the Holley SD intake on it. I doubt it will go to the track more than once a year, if that, and I live far away from anything so most driving is going to be highway speeds for a half hour or more to get anywhere. I want it to sound good with some rumble, to be able to do obnoxious burnouts and have it be reliable enough to drive a half hour to town for dinner or groceries or chicken feed, with enough vacuum for power brakes.

I don't need to stay on a super budget, but I don't mind spending for quality parts and to have it the way I want it either. I'm open to solid, hydraulic, roller setup, or anything else. My knowledge here is well below most of you but I've been reading in evenings to learn and plan it out.

I'm also half-concerned that when I pull these heads off I'm going to find something that will make me want to pull the block out and do way more work than I'm ready for. I don't have any builders anywhere near me, and I'm not set up to do it myself.

What would be the popular recommendation for cam/lifters/valvetrain for a street 440 in a Challenger, whether it's the 528 cam so many people like, or something else with less maintenance and noise?

(I know this is similar to my initial post and question, but now I'm at a point where I'm actively shopping and ready to start ordering parts and scheduling a weekend off work to get it done while it's snowing)

 

[Spyder]

I keep thinking of more...

I did a compression test over the summer just out of curiosity and it seemed low, but all within 10% of each other. All 8 cylinders were around 130psi +/- a bit.

Seems low to me, is it something I should consider figuring out before sticking a cam in it?

 

[Xcudame]

Consistent numbers between cylinders on the compression test is more important to me than the actual number 130 is good. Look at the Lunati Voodoo 704 camshaft. I think it will fit you build plan just fine. The Lunati 703 is the next smaller option but they appear to be out of stock right now. Here's a link for the 704 cam.

Lunati 10230704LK: Voodoo Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft and Lifter Kit Mopar Big Block 361-440 Lift: .513" /.533" - JEGS

''HOT Street'' cam; likes 2800 converter, Hi-Rise type dual plane intake with 850cfm carb, headers,10:1 compression, and 3.73 gears. Likes up to 200HP

www.jegs.com

You definitely need to measure how much compression ratio you'll have with the 240 Trick Flow heads and determine what thickness gasket to use. You want something in the 10.25 to 10.5+ for aluminium heads. Once you remove the heads, it's easy to measure how much the pistons are "down in the hole" and a disposable syringe to calculate the piston valve relief volume (assuming they aren't flat top). Pop up pistons are a little harder, but find out what you got before we make this too complicated.

 

[Xcudame]

Oh, and don't worry about the cam calling for a "high rise dual plane" intake. The Holley SD won't be enough difference at any rpm range for you to notice unless all you were doing is drag racing! It's a great intake design after all these years even if it is kinda ugly!

 

[Spyder]

Consistent numbers between cylinders on the compression test is more important to me than the actual number 130 is good. Look at the Lunati Voodoo 704 camshaft. I think it will fit you build plan just fine. The Lunati 703 is the next smaller option but they appear to be out of stock right now. Here's a link for the 704 cam.

http://[URL]https://www.jegs.com/i/...OFMS9MCcCVLO9fTcu79fxy7XFuidgzVvVWcoNVW5R-Yyy

[/URL]

You definitely need to measure how much compression ratio you'll have with the 240 Trick Flow heads and determine what thickness gasket to use. You want something in the 10.25 to 10.5+ for aluminium heads. Once you remove the heads, it's easy to measure how much the pistons are "down in the hole" and a disposable syringe to calculate the piston valve relief volume (assuming they aren't flat top). Pop up pistons are a little harder, but find out what you got before we make this too complicated.

Did some reading last night and this morning, that could be the ticket. Found some videos of the 703 and 704 sound and I like it, and my very limited knowledge base says the 704 will fit pretty close to what I'm envisioning. The CR now is ~10:1 and I believe the 240s and the 915s I currently have on it are the same size chambers at 78cc?

Planning is coming together, and I have a bunch of overtime scheduled through the end of November so I should be able to pull it off. I'm really tempted to just throw the Holley intake on and see what little difference that alone makes, but our roads are going to be salted any day now so if I don't do it this week I probably won't get a chance to until April.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Make sure you use Cometic head gaskets , you can tailor the thickness when you order .
I agree with the VooDoo cams , they work extremely well .
You should have TRW / Speed Pro forged pistons in there , hopefully the 6 Pack 10+ compression .

 

[74 Cuda]

I highly recommend Jones Cams