back of tires hitting frame on full turn

[mjb765]

70 Cuda with p/s, firm feel steering box and fast ration pitman arm, 235/60 R15 on 7" rims. The inside of the tire hits the frame rail on full turns--both sides. Car was aligned and tracks straight. Is there any sort of stop that is supposed to be there to stop this or is something else going on?

 

[heminut]

Tire size, rim width and rim offset would be useful info for diagnosing your issue.

 

[mjb765]

Tire size, rim width and rim offset would be useful info for diagnosing your issue.

The tire size and rim width is in the original post. 235/60 R15 on 7" rims. I am not sure of the offset, but they are stock rims.

 

[Xcudame]

Are the lower ball joints original? Or exact replacements (Moog)? I'm pretty sure the stock lower ball joints had built in stops (knobs).

 

[mjb765]

Are the lower ball joints original? Or exact replacements (Moog)? I'm pretty sure the stock lower ball joints had built in stops (knobs).

Moog.....They were supposed to be the direct replacements. Now I need to see if they have stops.

 

[Xcudame]

Moog should have the bump (stop). See the picture below. The bump is near the rear bolt hole.

 

[Xcudame]

Also, I have 255/60R15 Cooper tires on 15x7 Cop wheels with no hitting or rubbing on my 70 Challenger.

 

[mjb765]

Moog should have the bump (stop). See the picture below. The bump is near the rear bolt hole.

Thanks for the info...Verifying that is my next step. I almost hope it's not there so I would know what the issue is.

 

[CBCM 1942]

70 Cuda with p/s, firm feel steering box and fast ration pitman arm, 235/60 R15 on 7" rims. The inside of the tire hits the frame rail on full turns--both sides. Car was aligned and tracks straight. Is there any sort of stop that is supposed to be there to stop this or is something else going on?

View attachment 121699

Did you raise it up off the ground and do lock to lock? It might only do it on turns with a bump. Did you do any brake upgrades?

 

[mjb765]

Did you raise it up off the ground and do lock to lock? It might only do it on turns with a bump. Did you do any brake upgrades?

Yes, it was off the ground to confirm what the tires were hitting......and no upgrades to the brakes.

 

[1972 AAR Cuda]

At first thought I would say you have too much tire, but I checked my 72 Barracuda and it has 245/45ZR17's and they don't rub.
It's possible the fast ratio pitman arm is your issue - I believe the fast ratio pitman arm is longer than stock so the same steering wheel movement will move the steering geometry further for the same amount of input - which will then move the tire further, which might be enough to make contact when using your slightly taller tire...
FYI- I have found tires sizes to be slightly different from one manufacturer to another, which may add to your rubbing issue.
My 17" rims are custom offset to try to maximize the tire size for that rim while also fitting around the brakes and in the fender wheel opening - If I remember right they are 17 x 9 with 1 in negative offset. (Neg offset pushes the rim and tire outboard)

You might try a 1/2 -3/4 wheel spacer to see if that solves the rubbing issue. Not saying to keep it, but it would tell you if a different offset (different wheel) would fit and not rub. I am pretty sure the 1/2 to 3/4 in change wouldnt rub on the fender, but you should verify that if you give that a try... wheel spacers are fairly inexpensive. Also Keep in mind wheel lug thread engagement if you try a spacer.

 

[mjb765]

At first thought I would say you have too much tire, but I checked my 72 Barracuda and it has 245/45ZR17's and they don't rub.
It's possible the fast ratio pitman arm is your issue - I believe the fast ratio pitman arm is longer than stock so the same steering wheel movement will move the steering geometry further for the same amount of input - which will then move the tire further, which might be enough to make contact when using your slightly taller tire...
FYI- I have found tires sizes to be slightly different from one manufacturer to another, which may add to your rubbing issue.
My 17" rims are custom offset to try to maximize the tire size for that rim while also fitting around the brakes and in the fender wheel opening - If I remember right they are 17 x 9 with 1 in negative offset. (Neg offset pushes the rim and tire outboard)


You might try a 1/2 -3/4 wheel spacer to see if that solves the rubbing issue. Not saying to keep it, but it would tell you if a different offset (different wheel) would fit and not rub. I am pretty sure the 1/2 to 3/4 in change wouldnt rub on the fender, but you should verify that if you give that a try... wheel spacers are fairly inexpensive. Also Keep in mind wheel lug thread engagement if you try a spacer.

Not a bad idea...but first I am going to get under and check for the stops on the lower ball joints. If they are not there, then that would be the issue (or at least the first place to start)

 

[Avalanche]

I have 245/45/17 (same as above) on 8" rim with 4-1/2" backspacing. Fast ratio steering. And a firm feel steering box. No issues or rubbing.

 

[sixpactogo]

70 Cuda with p/s, firm feel steering box and fast ration pitman arm, 235/60 R15 on 7" rims. The inside of the tire hits the frame rail on full turns--both sides. Car was aligned and tracks straight. Is there any sort of stop that is supposed to be there to stop this or is something else going on?

View attachment 121699

I know what you mean but I don't know how to fix it. When I bought my 68 Charger back in 2014 I noticed it had the same issue on both front wheels. It had the original components and 14" magnum wheels. I have no idea how I fixed it but I rebuilt the front end parts, swapped the 14" wheels to 15" wheels. Upgraded to front disc brakes and swapped in a Borgeson steering box. I never really thought about it again but I have no rubbing now so I have no fix for you.
Here is a pic of mine back then. Looks like yours only worse. Good luck figuring it out. Hopefully it won't cost as much as my resto did.

 

[mjb765]

I checked out the lower ball joints and found that do have the bump stop....kind of disappointed since that could have been the issue.....

 

[Xcudame]

There could be a difference between the regular lower ball joints and the ball joints used on the fast ratio e-bodies. Perhaps someone else knows for sure.

 

[mjb765]

There could be a difference between the regular lower ball joints and the ball joints used on the fast ratio e-bodies. Perhaps someone else knows for sure.

So AAR vs regular....will do some research.

 

[bc3j]

Not sure, but isn’t there built-in stops somewhere at full lock to prevent excess turn into the frame? I thought there was, but not really sure. Never looked, but remember reading something about that many years ago.

 

[mjb765]

Not sure, but isn’t there built-in stops somewhere at full lock to prevent excess turn into the frame? I thought there was, but not really sure. Never looked, but remember reading something about that many years ago.

Are you talking about the stops built into the lower ball joints?? I checked and my ball joints have them....see the picture a few posts up.

 

[bc3j]

Are you talking about the stops built into the lower ball joints?? I checked and my ball joints have them....see the picture a few posts up.

I’m not sure. I thought there were stops in place to limit maximum turn to lock even though the steering box could still turn more. Just not sure.